Hissing toilet and a maon.

[Frustrated Shadetree]

As you guys can tell by my screen name, I'm frustrated! Here goes. I live in my house 10 years come May, 2007. It was a brand new house and to be totally honest, my wife and I have had no real issues with it aside of the little things you get with a brand new home. She is starting to show a little signs of some age, but nothing to serious. (dead washer, dead oven and a new found sprung leak in the ceiling of my garage) In any event to the toilet(s) and their problems. This past summer I was getting a horrible hissing sound coming from the powder room bath in my house. (I have 3 bathrooms, a full upstairs, the powder room and a 3/4 bath in my basement) It seems that I am having issues in all three bathrooms but only with the toilets. They are builder specials, all made by Gerber. I replaced the refill valve this summer thinking it might solve my hissing problem in the powder room, it seems to have worked UNTIL yesterday. I started hearing the hissing again. I replaced the refill valve with one I got from Home Depot as a kit. When I replaced it I also had to replace the supply lines because the new refill tube was to short to receive the existing copper tubing. In any event, I am going crazy trying to get the hissing to stop. I turn both screws at the top of the tube and STILL am getting hissing. Am I looking at problems here? 3 Gerber toilets and I am having trouble with all 3 give or take? The upstairs bath is the most reliable,(but have had problems with a moan or a "hum" here or there when I flush intermittenly) the other two, they seem to be more problematic. Hissing in one and a slow fill in the other. I am scared to call a plumber because I can only imagine. (I live in NYC and we get hit hard here) Any help would be much appreciated. BTW, in my description title I meant to type in MOAN.

 

[Plumber1]

You don't mention that you looked at the flapper or flush valve seal. A slight leak there can cause the ballcock to keep filling or hissing.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Frustrated Shadetree]

You don't mention that you looked at the flapper or flush valve seal. A slight leak there can cause the ballcock to keep filling or hissing.

I didn't mention those items because quite frankly, forgive my ignorance, I didn't think those items might be causing my problems. I didn't replace my original flapper because quite frankly the one that came with the kit was to heavy and didn't allow the water to flush at the same speed as before. (it seated to quick and I wasn't getting a good flush) I am not even sure what or where the flush valve seal is. Please help?

 

[Plumber1]

It's the device that holds water in the tank until you trip the handle.

Make sure the small refill tube that comes from the top of the ballcock to the overflow tube is not pushed down inside the overflow, but stays to the top and is only aimed into it. Otherwise you are continually siphoning and keeping the ballcock from staying closed.

 

[Randyj]

We moved into my old mobile home on the lake to build a new house out back. We had lots of strange noises and things to fix to make this dump livable. I had a very similar problem with the old 1963 toilet here. We had shared water with my cousin next door for the 35 years my family has owned this property. I replaced the flush valve which pretty much solved the problem. When I put my house on its own water meter I also installed a new pressure regulator and all the funky noises have so far disappeared.

 

[Jadnashua]

You didn't say what brand of fill valve you used. Some are better than others, and some are easier to repair (for about 1/4 the price of a replacement).

 

[Verdeboy]

If you have the old style ballcock fill valve with the metal rod and the black float then do the following test: when it starts hissing, lift up on the metal rod and see if it stops hissing. Keep holding it there and try to listen for a dripping sound, If you hear a dripping sound, then you need to adjust or replace the flapper. If you don't then your fill valve needs to be re-built with a top gasket or replaced.

BTW, you can do this same test with a fluidmaster fill valve, by lifting up on the float until it stops hissing.

 

[Frustrated Shadetree]

If you have the old style ballcock fill valve with the metal rod and the black float then do the following test: when it starts hissing, lift up on the metal rod and see if it stops hissing. Keep holding it there and try to listen for a dripping sound, If you hear a dripping sound, then you need to adjust or replace the flapper. If you don't then your fill valve needs to be re-built with a top gasket or replaced.

BTW, you can do this same test with a fluidmaster fill valve, by lifting up on the float until it stops hissing.

Verde:
You hit the nail on the head. I have the old type, metal rod and black float. I did what you said and it did stop hissing. Last night it was driving me nuts so I banned EVERYONE in the house from using it until I go out and buy another fill valve. I bought this as a kit from the Home Depot, I believe it's from Fluid Master (It comes in a plastic bag with everything; metal rod, float, flapper and fill tube) Do you think if I ordered a replacement kit from Gerber it would be any better? I can't believe I can only get a couple (3-5 months) out of an aftermarket repair kit.

 

[Frustrated Shadetree]

You didn't say what brand of fill valve you used. Some are better than others, and some are easier to repair (for about 1/4 the price of a replacement).

Jad:
I went into my garage to see what brand it was (I kept the packaging) and you know what, it doesn't even have a name on the front, just a toilet repair kit. It has colors on the plastic bag to make it look like a Fluidmaster product, but from what I read on the packaging, I don't believe they are related. It looks like I am going to need a new kit. Can anyone tell me if Gerber makes there own repair kits or I am getting a repackaged aftermarket brand? (hopefully it won't be this brand) How can I get a hold of Gerber? Does anyone have a direct link?

 

[Cass]

It does seem a little odd that all 3 started doing it at the same time and that a repair lasts a short time. I would get awater pressure gauge and see what your pressure is. If the pressure is normal I would replace all 3 flappers with the red Korky and then see if the problem continues. If it does then replace all 3 fill valves with a Fluidmaster 400A and the supply lines with braded stainless steel supply lines.

When replacing the flappers run your finger on the rim of the valve the the flapper seals on and feel for any build up of minerals or what ever.

 

[Frustrated Shadetree]

Cass:
That's exactly why I am here. I happen to think I am pretty handy and had this thing flushed, for a lack of a better word. I am so frustrated. I hate things to be out of place or misaligned with the moon or the stars. lol! Seriously, I can't understand this. We never had any problems with the plumbing and why would things start happening now after only 10 years? I am heading out to Lowes in a few, I dare not go back to Home Depot. Is the 400a from Fluidmaster like what i have now, or is it the new fangled type? BTW, why do they have the two types?

 

[Cass]

400As have been around a long time but the float ball type have been around longer. The rod and float ball type are less $$ for the MFG. so thats Y they are in most toilets in the first place.

Get the 3 red Korky flappers, 3 - 400As, 3 - braded stainless supply lines and a pressure gauge.

Check the pressure B4 you do anything. Up to 70# is normal.

If pressure is normal install the 3 items in eack toilet checking the sealing rim on the flush valve where the flapper seals.

You will have 3 rebuilt toilets and shouldn't have any problems for quite a while.

 

[Frustrated Shadetree]

400As have been around a long time but the float ball type have been around longer. The rod and float ball type are less $$ for the MFG. so thats Y they are in most toilets in the first place.

Get the 3 red Korky flappers, 3 - 400As, 3 - braded stainless supply lines and a pressure gauge.

Check the pressure B4 you do anything. Up to 70# is normal.

If pressure is normal install the 3 items in eack toilet checking the sealing rim on the flush valve where the flapper seals.

You will have 3 rebuilt toilets and shouldn't have any problems for quite a while.

Cass:
Where should I check the pressure, I mean at what point in the house? What happens if the pressure is higher than what you mentioned? What do I do then? I have no problems buying the items in question, but if the pressure is higher than what you say, is this new stuff in jeopardy?

 

[Jadnashua]

You can check the pressure outside on a hose bib faucet, at the washing machine, or anywhere you can screw the hose type connector on. You can buy an adapter that will allow you to screw it in other places, but those should be fine. You can also do it on the water heater drain, but if that valve is the typical junk, it may never seal again when you are done.

The thing has a hose connection on it so it just screws on to any place convenient. For a practical sense, the pressure is nearly the same everywhere unless you have a lot of stories in the building.

The water department could have installed a new pumping station, and you pressure is now higher than it was, or they did some work on the existing one to improve pressure, or added a water tower.

Most valves will handle higher pressures, but it can be hard on them...it will show up any worn ones if the pressure rises. Way back when, before we put in a pressure reduction valve when I was growing up, if you weren't hanging onto the glass well, and turned the water on full, the force would shoot it out of your hand!

Excess pressure stresses things...your water heater tank, supply hoses, joints, etc. Best to manage it with a prv if you have it.

 

[Frustrated Shadetree]

You can check the pressure outside on a hose bib faucet, at the washing machine, or anywhere you can screw the hose type connector on. You can buy an adapter that will allow you to screw it in other places, but those should be fine. You can also do it on the water heater drain, but if that valve is the typical junk, it may never seal again when you are done.

The thing has a hose connection on it so it just screws on to any place convenient. For a practical sense, the pressure is nearly the same everywhere unless you have a lot of stories in the building.

The water department could have installed a new pumping station, and you pressure is now higher than it was, or they did some work on the existing one to improve pressure, or added a water tower.

Most valves will handle higher pressures, but it can be hard on them...it will show up any worn ones if the pressure rises. Way back when, before we put in a pressure reduction valve when I was growing up, if you weren't hanging onto the glass well, and turned the water on full, the force would shoot it out of your hand!

Excess pressure stresses things...your water heater tank, supply hoses, joints, etc. Best to manage it with a prv if you have it.

Jad, Cass and others:
I asked my neighbor (who happens to dabble in plunbing) if there is a problem in our neighborhood with higher than usual pressure and he told me not that he is aware of. I still don't fully understand how I would correct a high water pressure problem. I know if the pressure is to high it will cause some havoc with the pipes and valves and such, just not sure how I could correct it if there was. In any event, I went to a local plumbing supply house and asked if he carried Gerber toilets and their parts and I got a half and half yes. The kid came back with a ball cock assembly that he claimed was a Gerber replacement. (It didn't look like one, or at least look like the one I have in my other two toilets) so I told him no thanks and went to Lowes and as per Cass recommendations, bought a 400a, stainless flexible tube and a Korky red made for toilets like mine, 1.6L water savers. I have to admit, the thing is quiet and quick to fill. One thing though, I can't seem to get it to fill to the fill line on the side of the tank, but it's close. No noise and all done! Thank you all for your help and your information. This site is a good one!

 

[Jadnashua]

Add a pressure reduction valve to your incoming water line to reduce the pressure to your preference (they're adjustable). It has a spring and diaphram that lets water in at your set pressure. It also prevents water from expanding out into the pipes, so you need a place for it - an expansion tank, to prevent other problems from the water heater when the cold water expands.

A gauge is a cheap $10 investment...you won't know until you check. Note, your water meter might have a check valve in it - this all by itself could cause the pressure to rise after using a bunch of hot water.

 

[Plumber1]

You didn't mention anywhere that I read to indicate that high water pressure was a problem. You have leaking flappers and they aren't affected by water pressure.

 

[Randyj]

I'm not familiar with the catlog numbers on fill valves, i.e. 400A but I can tell you that these plastic fluidmaster fill valves have a two part stand tube with a ring which can be pulled up then the whole top part can be moved up. The floats on some are also adjustable by sliding the squeeze piece (flat piece of metal partly folded to make a lock which can be squeezed to allow it to move). Water level should be adjustable by some method. Check for instructions in package or on box/bag.

 

[Verdeboy]

You can raise the water level on any fluidmaster by loosening the plastic lock ring on the shaft and "unscrewing" the shaft, which allows it to raise. Then lock the ring back in place. Arrow in picture shows you the lock ring.

 

[Randyj]

Yep Verde... that's what I was trying to say but needed to have one in front of me to look at while typing... Looks just like the zillions I've installed so I guess I'm a bit familiar with a 400A after all. Kinda hard to rotate when installed. I usually just pull up the ring then pull up the outer tube a click or two until it reaches appropriate water level then slide the lock ring back in place.