Help installing toilet flange

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by lordmoosh, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    One would hope that the stack is supported, but I would never take that for granted. A couple of riser clamps blocked in from above is all that it takes.

    If I am understanding your question about the flange, the pipe should bottom out (or be very close to it) in the hub when the cement is applied. If that is the outside fit flange, the riser should come up to about 1/8" from flush with the finished floor.
  2. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    Would you put a cast iron wye or a pvc wye in between the cast iron thats there right now?
  3. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    I would stay with the cast iron. If anything shifts a bit during the next 20 years, I would not want the load of the stack placed on a piece of PVC.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    It looks like no-hub cast iron in there now. If you replace santee on the stack, stay with no-hub.
  5. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    Ok so the plan is replace the current cast iron sanitary tee with a cast iron sanitary tee with a side inlet for the sink. I would use fernco "drums" to make the connection between the cast iron sanitary tee and the pvc from the toilet and sink. I will clamp the cast iron to the joists prior to making any changes. I think I can get all the stuff I need from Home Depot except for the cast iron sanitary tee. Is it ok to reuse the fernco couplings that I have attached to the current sanitary tee (they look young) or should I just replace them?

    As far as venting goes I see no way for me to add a vent to the sink/toilet without ripping the bathroom wall/ceiling out and wall upstairs to send a pipe up all the way to the attic. Further I do not think I have enough room in the wall to send a pipe due to obstructions from water supply pipes and wiring. Any suggestions on this end? All of the plumbing fixtures are going to the main stack. This house was just not built in mind for separate vents as far as I know. Thank you.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    The lav, should have had a vent going through the roof.
    Otherwise it would be an illegal S trap.

    Bringing the lav waste back to a side outlet santee would still not vent it.

    Reusing the no-hub clamps should be fine.

    Would I remove the santee?
    Nope!
    I still think there is a vent on the lav above the existing p-trap connection until proven wrong.
    One way to see, is to run water down the sink/lav and see if the trap siphons.
  7. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    We can only believe what you have told us, which is that the sink is not vented.

    I would not believe Terry's simple test of running some water into the lavatory because of the potentially low flow of the sink's faucet. You would need to drain a full sink or dump a bucket of water into it, and then check to see if the the trap has siphoned.

    If there is not a vent, it might be one of those times that an AAV will have to make do.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  8. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    Gotcha. One question... you said you would not remove the santee. Are you saying this because your earlier suggestion to add the wye after the elbow is ok? Thanks.
  9. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    The wye downstream of the bend would be correct IF the lav is properly vented. Either way requires the lav to be vented.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  10. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    Ok thank you.
  11. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    Thanks I will try this test. Do I basically open the trap and see if its not full of water after draining the full sink?
  12. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    Yes. If the sink drain is without a stopper, you should me able to shine a light down the trap and see if it is full.
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    When the waste exits the P-trap of the sink, and before it starts to go down, there must be a pipe coming off that arm within 42" for the size pipe you are using that goes up to act as the vent. Since it looks like the sink's drain just goes straight down in the wall, there MUST be a vent line going straight up from where it transitions from horizontal to vertical off the trap arm behind the P-trap, or it is an S-trap. Depending on the flow, you may or may not be able to siphon the trap in the sink, so the test is not definitive.
  14. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    The original plumbing was an s trap going through the floor connecting to the copper you see in the picture which is connected to the PVC. Doesn't this definitively mean the sink is not vented? In this situation would an acceptable fix be to run a p trap under the sink and attach an AAV and then drop the pipe through the floor? There are three load bearing joists under the wall behind the sink so there is no way I will be able to put a pipe in the wall and go down (or left or right or up for that matter due to other obstructions). Thank you.
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Some places allow an AAV, some don't. Having one is better than an S-trap. They can and do fail eventually, so they must be placed where they can be accessed. You want is as high in the cabinet as you can reasonably get it and still unscrew it to replace it.
  16. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    If I go with an AAV in the cabinet, does it make any difference whether I put a wye at the main stack or after the toilet elbow? Thanks.
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    You don't really want to keep it into the toilet fitting, but I don't think it really matters which other choice you make once you've got the sink vented.
  18. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    I was looking at the stack pipe and have another idea. What if I leave the CI sanitee the way it is and use it only for the toilet and install a tee in the kitchen sink copper pipe you see in the picture below and connect the bathroom sink to the tee?

    IMG_20130402_011145[1].jpg
  19. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    I'm still wondering why you don't just vent the sink and cut the sink drain wye into the toilet waste arm, downstream of the closet bend?
  20. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    Because Jim said "You don't really want to keep it into the toilet fitting, but I don't think it really matters which other choice you make once you've got the sink vented." after I asked "If I go with an AAV in the cabinet, does it make any difference whether I put a wye at the main stack or after the toilet elbow? Thanks.".

    The "You don't really want to keep it into the toilet fitting" part made it sound to me like putting the wye after the elbow or "toilet waste arm" was not the best way to do it. :confused:
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