Flush valve won’t stop leaking

[TexasHokie]

I’ve done this or similar repairs at least 15 times (home owner for 30 years and own rental properties)

I believe this is a 15 year old American Standard. Just says Vitromex on the inside of the tank.

I’ve replaced the 2” flush valve 2x’s now with both HD & Lowe’s kits. The Loews kit is the Fluidmaster. I’ve even swapped the rubber gasket/seal on both.

I have cleaned both inside and out and tightened down as hard as I can. I even have a flat plumbers adjustable wrench that gives me plenty of torque.

I have the tank sitting on top of a sink with the bolts & fill valve installed. The Fluidmaster gives me about an inch of water until it reaches the flapper, so I know the leak isn’t the flapper.

I can try installing it, but it’s only going to put me back to my original problem...tank filling for 10 secs once an hour.

I’ve looked closely & I don’t see any cracks.

The only possible issue I can see is the outside tank bottom isn’t flat for the entire diameter of the plastic nut. It does slope slightly as it approaches the front. However, the seal/gasket feels tight, and there a tight visual seal.

Is it possible I’m over tightening?

I have searched for a genuine AS seal, but nothing resembles what I took out, and the flush valve is original—have checked other toilets & I’ve lived here since new.

Thanks for the input.

 

[TexasHokie]

How about a picture 800 pixels or less of what you have inside the tank.

hopefully this works

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

The fill tube should daylight above the overflow. If that tube is inserted into the overflow it can siphon water from the tank into the bowl.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for the input.

I think you are implying that there is a leak onto the floor. Right?

 

[TexasHokie]

I think you are implying that there is a leak onto the floor. Right?

no

the leak is coming from the flush valve - even when the tank is off the bowl

I’m able to put about an inch of water in it with flapper removed & water leaks on the outside of the 2” piece that goes through the tank & into the bowl—I have the tank sitting on top of a sink—I can feel the slow drip, but certainly a drip. I even taped around the screw holes & fill valve hole with paper towels & no leak there.

I’m certain it’s not the “fill” side of things.

Will this leak go away if I install on the bowl with the seat?? This is what started the whole fix. Losing water from tank, not leaking on floor. We have hard water & the original flush valve plastic parts were “slimy” black.

 

[Reach4]

no

the leak is coming from the flush valve - even when the tank is off the bowl

Got it. While the water comes from the area, of the spud nut, the bowl unit still channels the water into the bowl.

If you turned off the supply, the water level in the tank would fall to the bottom of the tank rather than stopping at the flapper level.

 

[Terry]

You've replaced the flush valve twice with the same result? It may be time for a new toilet. Sometimes I do run across stuff that is porous.

 

[TexasHokie]

You've replaced the flush valve twice with the same result? It may be time for a new toilet. Sometimes I do run across stuff that is porous.

After 15 years?? Ouch....I have 3 more of these in the house. Wouldn’t surprise me though...all builders grade. It does seem to be leaking from one specific spot.

I’ve invested enough time that a new toilet probably makes sense. I just “really hate” the bowl replacement. I did fix a cracked tank with a replacement tank only, but that was a bedroom - nobody see’s mismatch. (Must have broke by angry seat lift) This is the powder room toilet & because of a home office gets used a lot.

If replacement is the eventual outcome, is it worth one last shot with a softer gasket/seat or some silicone or other sealant b/w the gasket and the porcelain? (This is probably a bad idea, but willing to try) There is another store across town that does have the Korky gasket. Just requires 20 mins there & back.

Either way......thanks for trying.

 

[Reach4]

I’ve invested enough time that a new toilet probably makes sense.

That investment is what hurts. Do those toilets need a plunger more than every 4 person-years? If so, go new. The new ones flush better.

If replacement is the eventual outcome, is it worth one last shot with a softer gasket/seat or some silicone or other sealant b/w the gasket and the porcelain? (This is probably a bad idea, but willing to try) There is another store across town that does have the Korky gasket. Just requires 20 mins there & back.

Any imperfections in the areas the gasket meets, that you might be able to smooth with abrasive?

Gooping silicone sealant around the seal and threads before tightening the spud nut seems worth trying.

 

[TexasHokie]

Just to wrap things up in case anyone else stumbles across this problem in search of their own solution....

Looks like the silicone did the trick. The HD Everbilt flush valve came with a gasket that had a channel underneath. It was a perfect way to apply the silicone bead. I wish I'd stuck w/ the Fluidmaster flush value and Everbilt gasket though.....the Everbilt is at least 1" shorter than what was originally there and lower than the fill line inside the tank. But, no leak at all. I think there was a slight indentation in the bottom of the tank. That plus the bottom where the nut goes not being perfectly flat. I guess the original plumber that installed had a "trick of trade." There was certainly no way to tighten any more than I did w/o breaking the plastic nut.

I guess the negative is taking it apart if I ever need to replace the flush valve again. I'm assuming the gasket will be stuck "glued" in. But the first flush valve lasted 15 years.

Hopefully it's a permanent fix. If not, I will buy a brand new toilet and probably just have it professionally installed. I really hate cleaning and reinstalling the wax rings.

 

[TOTOtalitarian]

I realize this is an old thread, but just wanted to share what I found w a similar situation, the entire flush valve was replaced w a Kohler flush valve kit. Mfr #85406 New flapper, new gaskets new everything.
Symptom after replacement: level in tank went down within 2 minutes and the tank would refill to restore the correct water level. The crazy thing was that if you looked at the inside of the toilet bowl there was no small beading of water indicating any water was coming into the bowel from under the bowl lip. I added food coloring to the tank when it was filled and as the coloring mixed with the tank water, the colored water was indeed getting into the bowl, but not from above the inside of the bowl, but at the bottom of the bowl where there is a hole/inlet to bowl I had not noticed was there.
I turned off the water source to the tank, removed the new flapper and got a flashlight. There was about a half inch of water left in the tank. I could see that the water was continuing to drip along the bottom of the white plastic tube which slightly projects into the tank . The only place the water could enter is where the flush valve new gasket contacts the bottom of the tank.
The gasket in the flush valve kit is a foam looking material and is conical in shape. The edge where there was contact was slightly scratched.
Likely source of the leak is that the big nut that snugs the gasket along the edge of the tank exit hole was not tight enough.
I went to the Depot, got a tube of blk RTV sealant, picked up a generic thin flat red round flush valve gasket , put sealant on both sides of the original conical gasket, added the second gasket and placed a bead of RTV sealant on the tank hole edge where the gasket would contact the tank. Carefully centered the flush valve in the tank hole , hand tightened pretty snug then added another 1/4 turn with channel locks. Waited about 24 hrs and there was no leak.
Was this overkill to add a second gasket, yes, the RTV was insurance that I would not have to remove the tank again. The sealant is still pliable and in the future can be scraped off if ever needing to replace the flush valve.