Basement rough-in issues

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by kregas, Feb 11, 2008.

  1. kregas

    kregas New Member

    Messages:
    15
    When our house was built 3 years ago, we had the basement roughed in for a bathroom. I recently started finishing it and never really looked at the plumbing until now. I have a few questions I hope you guys can answer for me:

    1. The large pipe to the left runs into the ceiling. I assume it's a vent? I also assume the capped pipe to the left of the toilet flange is the drain for the sink? What would the pipe to the right of the toilet flange be (with the p-trap)?

    2. The toilet flange is the standard 12" from the wall you see in the picture, however the pipes coming up are on the inside of the wall. How do I frame these pipes in as well as keep enough distance to install a toilet?

    3. The grey shower drain box only extends 4 3/4 inches from the wall in the picture. Does this seem a little tight?

    Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

    [​IMG]

    Terry's input here
    The 2" pipe on the left, that goes through ceiling is most likely the lav drain, and the vent for the entire bathroom set.
    It would need a 2" x 1-1/2" Santee cut in for the lav.
    Above that, at 42", you would cut in a 2" santee, go to the right, and pick up the toilet vent, and then over to the tub vent.
    You must keep all the vents.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2008
  2. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    1) The pipe to the left looks like a vent. The pipe to the left of the flange could be the WC vent or wet vent (Depending of the diametre of that pipe). The pipe on the right might be a wet vent for the shower/bathtub rough-in. Its hard to tell without knowing your basement layout.

    In my area, we have to connect all the vents at the rough-in stage with the appropriate T's, whether you finish the basement or not

    2) If you don't want to dig into the cement and extend those 2 pipes straight into the wall, you could cut the pipes at about 3/4" off the floor and offset them with 2 - 45's into the wall

    3) The drain box seems to be roughed in for a bathtub. If you want a shower, you may end up chopping some cement to relocate your new shower drain.


    I hope I help from what I could see
  3. kregas

    kregas New Member

    Messages:
    15
    1. The diameter of the pipes to the left and right of the toilet flange are 1 1/2". Can these just be vented into an open cavity?

    2. If I dont want to cut the concrete, will this mean that I'll be able to see the piping at the bottom of the wall before I turn them inside the wall?

    3. By shower I meant tub/shower. One of those 1 piece fiberglass deals. How far from the wall to those normally drain?
  4. threaderman@yahoo.com

    threaderman@yahoo.com Licensed Plumbing & Gas Contractor.

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    The rough-in is wrong.Never inspected I'm sure.Correcting it may not be possible with-out moving the walls or busting up the floors.We would need measurements to know for sure either way.
  5. kregas

    kregas New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Wow. Nice to pay $1300 for the rough in to find out it's wrong. Probably why my builder filed for bankruptcy this year.

    Unfortunately, the wall existing is load bearing so I can't do much with it.

    As for measurements, not really much there. The existing pipes butt up against the wall in the picture and the toilet flange is 12"-c- from the same wall.
  6. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Rough ins are offer done poorly, and unfortunately, since they almost always are in a basement and therefore cast in concrete, it becomes a major problem to fix. It would be my suggestion to call in a plumber to determine what needs to be done. There are some things that are difficult to impossible to determine without being on site.
  7. threaderman@yahoo.com

    threaderman@yahoo.com Licensed Plumbing & Gas Contractor.

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    I'm sorry about that.It would be a one day,day-and a half job, to bust a little of the floor and make it work.You'll have to take the plumbing to the walls.It needs inspection.I would have installed a right-handed tub instead for access to the tub-box after the tub is set.Good-luck.
  8. threaderman@yahoo.com

    threaderman@yahoo.com Licensed Plumbing & Gas Contractor.

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    If I read wrong and it is a shower,center of your shower stall is the normal place for the drain.But it doesn't have to be in the center,it is just more practical.
  9. threaderman@yahoo.com

    threaderman@yahoo.com Licensed Plumbing & Gas Contractor.

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    And why is there a stand-pipe/indirect waste in your bathroom.Hope that's not supposed to be the lav.
  10. kregas

    kregas New Member

    Messages:
    15
    I'm not sure I understand your questions.

    I'm putting in a left hand 60" x 35" tub/shower. It "should" line up to the drain pit.

    Not sure what you mean by stand pipe/indirect waste
  11. threaderman@yahoo.com

    threaderman@yahoo.com Licensed Plumbing & Gas Contractor.

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Got ya.Okay,that pipe next to the toilet flange is a indirect waste that can be used for a clothes washer or water softener [the one with the trap] and that is about the only residential application .The tub-box should have bein on the other side of the tub to the right in order to be worked on in the future,unless there is room to work that I can't see.Speaking of work ,gotta go.
  12. MG

    MG New Member

    Messages:
    160
    Location:
    Illinois - Near St. Louis
    I hope that flange is not glued in at the floor...because if you want to install tile you're going to have a fun time. Flanges should sit on top of the finished floor to make it easier to seat the toilet.
  13. kregas

    kregas New Member

    Messages:
    15
    No, that's the only thing that actually looks correct in the rough-in. Just a bad angle in the picture is all.

    Not trying to stir the pot, but who's to blame in all this? Plumber? Builder? Inspector?? There was a reply before that rough-in's are often done poorly. If this is common knowledge, how does it continue to happen?
  14. threaderman@yahoo.com

    threaderman@yahoo.com Licensed Plumbing & Gas Contractor.

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Someone overlooked something .Were there prints ?Who was responsible for overseeing the job?That's where you'd have to start.
  15. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    IMO, a plumber should have known better to place the flange at 12" rough when the pipes are sticking outside the wall.

    It should have been 12 3/4" from the edge of the pipe to the center of the flange. That way you could fir out the wall to hide pipes. The 3/4" is to allow for sheetrock and tiles(optional). Then you will be 12" from finished wall
  16. kregas

    kregas New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Well, the plumber was just here. You guys were right on the money. He recommended to cut the concrete 5' across to extend the shower drain to accomodate a right hand shower drain so there is access to it in the future. I also have to cut out the concrete 8" for the toilet because it's too close and so I can build a wall to hide the drain pipes.

    Which brings me to another question for the experts. Can I simply buy a masonry blade for my circular saw to cut the concrete where I need to go, then chisel out what's remaining?

    I've obviously never done anything like this before.
  17. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada

    The circular concrete saw will create alot of dust, even if you wet it down. I would recommend a small jackhammer that you can rent at HD for 1/2 day minimum. Only if its really thick. You can test it with a sledge hammer to see if the concrete is very hard to get through first.
  18. Herk

    Herk Plumber

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    Back when I was plumbing houses, I always tried to do the best job possible, and of course all vents were completed. But I constantly run into jobs where the rough piping in the basement was very poorly thought out, if at all. The reasoning seems to be: I just have to have some pipes in there so I can collect my money, and I don't care if they actually work.

    And I've often run into situations where the plumbing for a basement tub or shower was not in the right place, and I wondered what they could have been planning for. When someone finishes the framing in the basement, they often don't understand what the plumber had in mind, and have no idea how to frame properly around the plumbing.

    In this case, it doesn't appear that it was a plumber who did the work - both the unfinished vents and, as already mentioned, the distance to the center of the flange with the pipes outside the wall. That just ain't right.
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    It should look something like this

    Attached Files:

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