Ballvalves's toilet broken in shipping by UPS

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Terry

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I shipped a toilet on a pallet to myself by accident one time. It shipped from Brooklyn,
It was the only one-piece toilet I've ever installed that had a cracked tank.
And I've sold thousands of these things, but it was the one that came on a pallet to me, in the back of a semi, that I carefully lifted out that had the crack.
There was also a different order that went to Iowa, several toilets on one pallet, and the cracks didn't show up for a few months after they were installed.
After a few years, I realized that I was getting 20% breakage. A lot of it I couldn't get comped on by the shippers.
That, plus the time I spend doing things twice, and dealing with unhappy customers.
 
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Redwood

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And Terry, Redwood gets away with the wife beating and get a life lines? Does not seem to meet the standards of conduct you have put forth here. I thought we fought over women and fence lines, not toilets.

Please excuse Ballvalve after 4 very repetitious posts I was getting ready to hijack and drive a Saudi Arabian Airlines plane into a mosque....:D

I was thinking enough already...
If UPS hadn't busted it in shipping you would have just simply put it in without thinking anything was thin and marveled at how well it works...

As for an Arab made toilet in the World Trade Center II I could live with that although I'd probably do a hover and the deliberate miss would land right on the name...:D

If you really do have objections to buying a Mexican/Chinese toilet from a Japanese company perhaps you should have a look here before buying, to ensure that the model you are buying is Made in USA.

http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/BrochureDownloads/BAA-0410.pdf

Its kind of funny what has happened that we now have a better chance of buying an American made product from companies like Toto, Toyota, and Nissan, than when we buy something from American Standard, GM , & Chrysler...:mad:

Sorry to upset you with my post but I had to do it to save all those on the Saudi Jet and in that mosque...
 
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Terry

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I forgot to click on the "ship to" tab, and it defaulted to my address in the Seattle area.
It was supposed to be delivered somewhere in the East Coast.
 

Ballvalve

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As long as UPS and the vendors suck up the breakage, and you dont have a toilet emergency, why not take some glassware for free? They come tax free and quick, and you don't have to suffer the mental overload of a box store.

The local mechanical supply guys dont want to mess with special orders, and stock the no name 89$ variety.
 
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As long as UPS and the vendors suck up the breakage, and you dont have a toilet emergency, why not take some glassware for free? They come tax free and quick, and you don't have to suffer the mental overload of a box store.

The local mechanical supply guys dont want to mess with special orders, and stock the no name 89$ variety.

Not sure what you are saying. Free? The online vendors charge dearly for that shipping (more than enough to offset any tax savings) and you have to deal with the random quality of UPS handling, claims processes and other headaches if they screw it up.

Local plumbing houses (not big box stores) will do the shipping for free if you don't want it immediately and wait for it to come in with their next distributor delivery. If there is something wrong with it, they seem to have very quick turnaround (had one shipped with a malformed tank that wasn't obvious until install.) Plus you can get a very competitive quote from them on Totos.
 
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Question for Terry: Why do replies with blockquotes leave a huge empty space above them? Looks like about 10 empty lines.
 

Ballvalve

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Not sure what you are saying. Free? The online vendors charge dearly for that shipping (more than enough to offset any tax savings) and you have to deal with the random quality of UPS handling, claims processes and other headaches if they screw it up.

Local plumbing houses (not big box stores) will do the shipping for free if you don't want it immediately and wait for it to come in with their next distributor delivery. If there is something wrong with it, they seem to have very quick turnaround (had one shipped with a malformed tank that wasn't obvious until install.) Plus you can get a very competitive quote from them on Totos.

I am an obnoxiously careful shopper and the local distributors are way high on totos, dont care to bring them in, and would freak out if you wanted to return one for cosmetic reason. Some do not know what a toto is at all. Most are on the edge of bankruptcy anyway.

I know well that the word FREE is meaningless, but my broken drake eco came in for 203$ at my DOOR, and a trip to a real toto dealer would have cost me at least 203$ in time, gas and mileage. Then the [truly] free broken one got used without the front skirt, with a unknown tank siliconed to the drake cripple in the shop john, which was a huge upgrade for the guys. The replacement got shipped free for a 3 minute phone call. [no need to even talk to UPS] Show me how you can beat that price and service...

I know the midwest well, and your supply chain is much closer than here in California where I can see out my bedroom window for hundreds of miles and will never see a street or house light. When the family from Wisconsin visits, they say we must have a different solar system, as they never saw so many stars before.

Can you get a eco Drake at your door for $203 delivered without tax and ordered at midnight - even in the midwest?
 
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Jimbo

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Not to belabor an old post......but packaging is a science. Manufacturers need to ship their product with the least expense involved, while at the same time having minimal damage. Toilets are specifically designed to ship on pallets, and pallets of toilets rarely have any damaged product, unless the mutt hits it with a fork!

A quick look at the box of a tank of bowl would tell you that they are NOT suitably packed to ship onesy by UPS. I am surprised UPS still accepts toilets, because they break most of them!
 
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I am an obnoxiously careful shopper and the local distributors are way high on totos, dont care to bring them in, and would freak out if you wanted to return one for cosmetic reason. Some do not know what a toto is at all. Most are on the edge of bankruptcy anyway.

I know well that the word FREE is meaningless, but my broken drake eco came in for 203$ at my DOOR, and a trip to a real toto dealer would have cost me at least 203$ in time, gas and mileage. Then the [truly] free broken one got used without the front skirt, with a unknown tank siliconed to the drake cripple in the shop john, which was a huge upgrade for the guys. The replacement got shipped free for a 3 minute phone call. [no need to even talk to UPS] Show me how you can beat that price and service...

I know the midwest well, and your supply chain is much closer than here in California where I can see out my bedroom window for hundreds of miles and will never see a street or house light. When the family from Wisconsin visits, they say we must have a different solar system, as they never saw so many stars before.

Can you get a eco Drake at your door for $203 delivered without tax and ordered at midnight - even in the midwest?


1. You paid $209 according to your first post, now it is $203? Are you negotiating with yourself?
2. As for what I can order for, it's been a year but if I chose the bowl without CEFIONTECT it would have been close to your range of prices, $214 was the quote I had on the 1.6 gpf with elongated bowl. This based on the slightly lower of prices from two local, non-Toto dealer vendors. Don't know what the round bowl would have cost, should have been less. I eventually went with the CEFIONTECT and that was a substantial adder, but well worth it.
3. Ordering at midnight? I don't care what time of day or day of week you order since actual shipping still occurs during normal business hours.
4. Didn't have any trouble on a tank swap for one of my 3 because of the previously mentioned deformation. I used the tank until the new one arrived.
5. I'm still puzzled about the cognitive disconnect of blaming Toto for the shipper busting the toilet.
6. As for stars/views, I'm in a metro region right now, but astronomy is a hobby of mine so I've been places you've probably only dreamed of with regards to atmospheric transparency. On Mauna Kea at ~9,000 feet I spotted all my 8th magnitude reference stars in Hercules, naked eye...and I was groggy/non-acclimated and my eyes were shot since I had been diving morning and evening all week. I could actually trace the dust disk of the ecliptic--it was like having a big scale model of the solar system with a "you are here" pointer at your feet. In West Texas I could routinely see 7 to 7.5 mag at my observing sites. I grew up in locations of very low population density, so while your location is likely quite good, I doubt it is anything I haven't seen before. In reference to the topic at hand, regardless of location, there are distributors in local population centers that one will need to go through periodically. With Fresno, being about 50 miles away by road, you've got some fairly bright light sources for my tastes. Last time I checked Fresno was a lot closer to a deepwater port than any place I've lived in the Midwest...so if I was going to give someone a lecture about supply chain length for an imported toilet component...


The one thing I agree about from an earlier post, is the shape of the outlet on toilets being counterintuitive. I would expect a streamlined horn to be most efficient hydraulically. I doubt you would see 100' of flow resistance though. With ~3" opening I would expect maybe 100 equivalent lengths...about 25 feet. Did a quick check against Crane's nomographs and it works out to 20 feet for an inner lip, so I made a good guess. But these outlets seem to work without problems. They are likely easier to reliably pour and fire--and without the weight penalty of a smooth solid piece there.
 

hj

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One of my supply houses will LTL toilets from a warehouse in LA. The shipping adds about $40.00 because they enclose the toilet's box inside a bigger one, spray foam the space between them, and then strap it to a pallet. They usually arrive safely, but we do NOT buy from them because they are "cheaper".
 

Ian Gills

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I'm still puzzled about the cognitive disconnect of blaming Toto for the shipper busting the toilet.

I see it all the time on here with complaints about the Cadet 3, which remains an excellent toilet for an excellent price.

How do people think they get to the Big Box stores? By magic? Or in one of hj's special foam-filled boxes? I think not.

And guess what happens when they get there? Let's just say they're not put in one of Terry's purple velvet bags like the brassware.

Anyway I thought the complaint was about the porcelain, the lip and the origin of this "American-made" product by Toto.
 
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Ballvalve

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1] The guys here made the connect between toto and the breakage being the point. No cognitive aberrations - I think the front skirt was too thin, broken or not, toto or not, and the source country not at all correct for a 200++ dollar toilet . They designed a good toilet....now either make them all here or hit the 85$ price point like the other chinese slave labor - currency manipulated - countries.

2] A trip to Fresno costs about 80 bucks RT, and you are likely to come back to the truck to find it on concrete blocks with tires and interior missing. [because many of the factories in Fresno moved out of country] The UPS guy is somewhat safer. That makes my 203$ toto [yes that was the correct #] worth somewhere between$283 plus $25 tax and 4 or 5 thousand, plus post traumatic stress counseling.

3] This was no dope shipper - The bowl had 10$ worth of foamed in place packing all around it. Might have taken a hit in Shangai, or made on chinese new years. Who's the winner in that equation? toto, because they made it for 5$, shipped it for 4$ and the AMERICAN company UPS has to give them "retail" on the part. The skirt was not in pieces, it just lifted off the toilet in a nice clean piece.

4] fortunately a mountain blocks the western view and light pollution. Alaska with its northern light shows is my favorite view site, although saw a few here too.

5] Finally, someone that gets the hydraulics of that lip. Seems like a little chinese finger with 3 ounces of clay could give it a 1 cent swipe - even an American can do it for 4 or 5 cents.
 
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Jadnashua

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The toilets that get delivered to places like HD, Lowes, etc. come in by the truckload, or at least a full pallet. Once there, they get broken down into individual units, hopefully, not banged around too much. The average person buying one doesn't throw it on the cart or leave it unsupported sliding around in the back of their truck. Thus, the boxes are fine for a full pallet, or careful individual transport, but lousy for bouncing around singly on a truck across the country without some added support.
 

hj

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quote; but I think you missed Ford trucks and Dodge caravans.

My Ford trucks have "Hecho en Mexico" stamped on many of the parts, and my Caravan was assembled in Canada.
 

Ballvalve

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I think my new truck says 87% US parts including the engine and tranny. I'll take a toto with 87% too for 203 bucks. Until then, 98% mexico looks okay for a Cadet 3 $152 delivered or some Kohlers 100% US. last I heard before rome fell, Caravans were made in both countries.... I'll give Canada a pass anyway, that's the 52nd state, and our own private Saudi Arabia.

Actually got a Cadet 3 with an American tank last year.
 

Ian Gills

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Actually got a Cadet 3 with an American tank last year.

That's why they're called American Standard. Because they are built to the standard an American expects.
 
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