American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Reader Review, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Believe it or not... The Briggs is worse than a Chumpian!
    It is so bad it takes 2 or 3 flushes to get a piece of toilet paper to leave the bowl!
    Chumpian owners, Look at the bright side...
    At least your toilet can flush.
  2. Albany

    Albany New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    New York
    Don, turn off the water

    When I had the champion, I decided that instead of paying ridiculous water bills, I turned off the valve to the toilet-especially when I went away for the weekend. Unless you're using it every 15 minutes, turn the water to it off until you can just dump the thing. It's better to throw it out than to endure the aggravation that this thing causes.
  3. d0n

    d0n New Member

    Messages:
    8

    I really agree. However, I use it a lot because it's on the main floor of our house. Turning the water on and off would be more of a pain in the butt than paying the higher water bills.

    If this new flush valve that they're supposed to be sending me (3 weeks now and still no valve!) doesn't fix the toilet, I'm taking it back to lowes.

    You're in Albany NY?
  4. d0n

    d0n New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I got the new valve and installed it. I'll be damned if it doesn't leak now!

    The new flush valve and old one were identical. I wonder how long this one will last? ! :rolleyes:
  5. Retired Guy

    Retired Guy New Member

    Messages:
    1
    I installed a AS Champion last summer and I have never used a more capable toilet! Just had a new Toto installed in this home and need a plunger at least once a month - splashes and doesn't scour properly. If it were any worse -- I'd put in another AS. I love them. You do need a deep set socket though.
  6. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    We had bought a American Stander / Champion / 2 piece / chair height / left flush handle / elongated toilet
    Love it but hate !! One time it will flush with one push . Next time it might take up to about 10 times to flush . Why ?
    Was told not to do anything with it , can't any way there is no parts and why should we have to anyway ?
    So we can't afford to buy a new tiolet to replace it just for that reason .
    Might have to because of that reason !!!
    teddies
  7. ricksrest

    ricksrest New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Champion running repair solution

    I bought American Standard and Korky replacement flush valve seals and neither stopped the problem on my one piece #2004 Champion.

    As I was turning the cylinder that the ring mounts on I noticed that there are three "ears" on the cylinder and three nubs where they land in the seat area.
    I used a standard plier to grab each ear and bend it up. I reached in through the slot where the float that has some unknown function mounts.

    Now the seal ring is able the press down on the seat and it seems to work fine.

    Best of luck,
    Rick
  8. Albany

    Albany New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    New York
    Actually Delmar, a suburb of Albany.
  9. Southern Man

    Southern Man DIY Hillbilly

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I've got three of these toilets in my vacation home. The flush valve broke in one, and no parts available locally, but I called the 800 number and AS sent out a replacement for free- and offered to send me several.

    It was a pain to replace (had to remove the entire tank). But all three aahve worked great for three years except for that one incident.

    My only concern is to keep small dogs and cats away when you flush it, because anything smaller than a 10# ham is going away when you mash that handle.
  10. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    We have had two of these installed in our home two years ago and really like them both. They resolved all our problems with stools! Also, the additional height is great. We bought a toilet seat that slowly goes down on rather than quickly. That too was a good investment.
    M Dahlke
  11. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    I purchased The Champion on 7/14/08 and the tank will not tighten and remains loose and leaky, and the flush valve system leaks constantly. I wish I had seen these postings before purchasing. Also you cannot get any live person to speak to at American Standard. This has resulted in major plumbing bills.

    Everyone with problems should join the proposed class action lawsuit at: http://www.americanstandardclassaction.com/

    It is quick and easy to fill out the short questionnaire.

    B Sandridge
  12. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    American Standard should provide replacement parts free of charge to its customers or reimburse its customers for the parts. I have had a terrible time trying to find replacement parts for the flush unit as none of the big box hardware stores or any of the traditional hardware stores carry the parts. The engineer who designed this mechanism obviously never heard of KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid!

    R Stahl
  13. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    You need to call Am. Std. to get the repair parts sent to you!

    250 + posts from satisfied Chumpian customers... sic and almost 90,000 views of this thread yet people are still buying this lemon...

    Amazing!
  14. d0n

    d0n New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Getting the replacement parts is a pain in the butt ... paying a plumber to install them and paying for the extra water useage is rediculous!

    I just signed up for the american standard class action law suit. I bet I'm out at least $100 just in extra water useage from this leaking toilet!
  15. sixlashes

    sixlashes Plumber in Previous Life

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Pensacola. FL
    Well then, I guess American Standard is off the fixture list. Thank you guys for the horror stories. I'm off to look at Toto and Kohler.
  16. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    I too have had issues with the American Standard Champion toilet. I purchased two to install in my home about three years ago (2005). Had no major issues until one lost the E clip on the center shaft of the flush actuator. I got online and saw the slew of complaints about this issue and that it was difficult to get parts. Called American Standard and they told me 3 to 6 months, unbelievable. So I tool matters into my own hands and "Reverse Engineered" a solution. you need a small plastic washer and an E clip from the hardware store. Shave the sides off the washer to make it flat so that it will fit between the plastic posts that surround the center shaft, the place the E clip on the slotted section of the shaft. That fixed the problem there.
    About a month ago, I noticed that the toilet was running every so often, and checked to see that the flapper valve seal had been dislodged. I reseated the flapper seal, but the issue persists CONSTANTLY. A huge disappointment, that I have to address yet another issue.
    Overall the toilets have been a good unit, yes they do make an audible noise when you flush. But that was well worth being able to throw away my plunger, as i have never had to plunge the unit even once in the three years they have been installed.
    C. Curtis
    Denver, CO
  17. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    Wow, I came here for advice to fix a small leaking on 2 of three of these toilets to discover I mine as well replace all 3 toilets with something other than American Standard Champions. I don't want to go through a series of nightmares replacing valves to have it break again.....where can I get a completely different toilet from another company- one more responsible ?
    K Kelly
  18. ricksrest

    ricksrest New Member

    Messages:
    3
    I fixed mine, check my message.
    ricksrest
    7/20/2008
    Please let me know if it works for you.
    Rick
  19. jgsouthard

    jgsouthard New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Experience with the new flush valves and the one piece Champion

    I'm liking the ONE piece Champion toilet with the NEW Champion4 flush valve. That's a combination that I think desires a little higher praise than the general Champion-bashing here might indicate.

    History:
    - Bought 3 Champions in 2005 to replace all three of our 25-year-old toilets, one two piece right-height elongated and two one piece elongated.
    - The design of the flush valves has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever seen in a toilet (well, at least in the TANK of a toilet). One look was enough to tell you that there was absolutely no way they would last. Somebody at AS needs a lesson in KISS design.

    Two piece experience:
    - Installation of the two-piece was a nightmare due to the tank installation issues everyone has discussed: gasket too thick, support points lower in back than front, tank rocked, etc.
    - The flush valve in the two-piece broke after about 2-3 days (some little clip came off in the top and springs and stuff fell out). I took it apart and fixed it with little things from ACE hardware, very similar to the fix described by the previous poster.
    - The loud knock when you flush has been highly irritating.
    - About 1 out of every 5-10 flushes, the plastic catch on the tower wouldn't hold and the valve would never open (i.e. no flush).
    - I'm convinced that a hard quick press on the handle would have totally FUBAR'd the flush valve, but we babied it and it kept working (usually).
    - When it flushed, and ignoring the loud knock, it flushed great. Never a clog.

    One piece experience:
    - Installation of the one-piece toilets was a breeze, very easy.
    - Flush action didn't seem quite as robust as the two piece, but still WAY better than our previous 3.5g toilets which required regular unclogging, and better than any other 1.6g one piece that I've seen.
    - We've never had a clog with either one piece.
    - After about 18 months, one of the one-piece flush valves started leaking, causing tank water to drop. But the fill valve didn't come on until the water was too low to flush effectively, so often the toilet just wouldn't flush (not enough water) and you'd have to wait for it to refill and try again.

    Fast forward to August 2008:
    - After reading this forum and learning about the new flush valves, I just replaced the flush valves in all three toilets with the new design.
    - This was a very simple 10-minute process on the one piece toilets, and a royal pain on the two piece due to having to remove the tank (although reseating the tank was a lot easier than the first time I did it, since I knew to stop short of trying to hit the rear tabs).

    Experience so far with the new flush valves:
    - It takes a little more pressure on the handle to lift the valve, but we're getting used to it. But compared to other toilets (not just the previous Champion valve), it seems like it takes a little too much pressure.
    - The flush action is much quieter -- no more loud knocks from the two piece or softer knocks from the one piece.
    - Flush action seems just as effective, at least when you hold the handle down for a couple of seconds.
    - A quick press on the handle results in a "partial flush" that doesn't fully empty the tank down to the bottom of the valve opening. The flush action on these toilets is so good that even this partial flush does OK in most cases, but these valves do seem to close a little more quickly than they should.
    - Holding the handle down for a couple of seconds until the tank has fully emptied results in a more thorough flush.
    - The combination of the extra pressure required to start the flush and the tendency of the valve to close before the tank is fully empty makes me think the valve is a little too "heavy" in the water and could benefit from floatation material to make it a little closer to neutral buoyancy. I'm thinking about adding a float of some sort to the chain, although getting the right buoyancy without causing gaskets leaks could be a little tricky.
    - Even with the nit-picks, I would say that these valves are FAR superior to the previous designs.

    If I were buying a new toilet now, I would consider the Champion one piece as long as it had the new flush valve design. I have no major complaints with the one piece other than the old flush valve design.

    I don't think I will ever buy another two piece toilet. I've always hated installing or doing repairs on them due to the many problems with leaking tank bolts or tank-to-bowl gaskets (it's the dang bolts that I've had the most problems with), but the Champion two piece design problems pushed me over the edge. I'm probably overreacting, but I'm just not seeing the point in putting myself through that pain. The one piece designs are more attractive and a lot easier to keep clean, too.

    Grading the best toilets, the ones that work!
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2009
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I'm a plumber, and I hated installing the Champion two-piece.
    Way too heavy,
    Hard to get at tank bolts
    Hard to get at seat bolts
    Way to big and bulky in a bathroom.
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