4 wire submersible 110volt electrical issues.

[RandyVMD]

I recently purchased a deep well submersible deep well pump from an ebay vendor with the primary intention of using this pump for irrigation from a spring basin to a large pond in my front yard. Pump came with 100 feet of stranded 4 wire cord attached and a control box. electrical cord attached to control box was a 2 prong European plug with an adapter provided for standard north American 110volt outlets (Chineese product). Hooked this up according to specks and needed an extension to supply power from my shed which is serviced by direct bury outdoor 12/2 grounded wire to a 200amp subpanel in my garage roughly 100 feet away. selected a convenient cord of 50 feet that may have only been 16ga.
powered up the pump and was very impressed with the water flow, obtained a full 1 1/2" pipe of water at the top of a 25 foot rise and let this flow into a downspout collection basin that feeds to the pond.
First issue was that the European plug adapter immediately became hot and shorted out so I opened up the control box and replaced the pigtail plug with a standard US plug that I scavenged from a scrapped microwave, seemed to be equivalent guage. Set pump back in operation and it provided good flow for about 6 hours then the 20 amp breaker started tripping and shutting down the pump. Assuming my extension cord may be an issue, I replaced it with a 12 gauge cord and operated the pump again only to find that the control box wire leading to the circuit breaker continues to heat up within minutes of use and trips the breaker.
Not sure what to do next, was going to try single strand 12/2 grounded single strand wire as replacement for my extension cord but didn't have any on hand. Why does this pump require a control box at all? Could you detail its function or is it needed only to step down voltage from European electrical supplies? Can the pump be directly wired without a high risk of shorting it out? Will detail the wiring colors when I can, at work right now. Thanks in advance for any insight, RandyVMD

 

[RandyVMD]

Breaker issues noted above are within the control box only. Service line to shed is GFI protected and neither the GFI nor the panel breakers have tripped.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

I'm not sure why you'd need four wires to power a 110vac pump?!

What's in that control box? It may be that the pump is dual voltage, and the connections in the control box allow it to run on 110 or 220. It sounds like with the extra leads, you're pushing the limits, indicated by the heat, of the supply wires. A European plug implies 240vac operation, but the control box may have voltage sensing, and switch the windings to accept 120vac. Keep in mind, the same pump at 120vac will draw 2x the amperage as it would if run at 240vac.

What is the stated amperage draw of the motor? Code calls for the 80% rule for items that are run constantly, so as things heat up, the voltage goes down, the amperage goes up, and over time, you can approach the limit on the circuit breaker if it's close.

 

[Bgard]

Is the pump submerged in water completely?

 

[RandyVMD]

I'm not sure why you'd need four wires to power a 110vac pump?!

What's in that control box? It may be that the pump is dual voltage, and the connections in the control box allow it to run on 110 or 220. It sounds like with the extra leads, you're pushing the limits, indicated by the heat, of the supply wires. A European plug implies 240vac operation, but the control box may have voltage sensing, and switch the windings to accept 120vac. Keep in mind, the same pump at 120vac will draw 2x the amperage as it would if run at 240vac.

What is the stated amperage draw of the motor? Code calls for the 80% rule for items that are run constantly, so as things heat up, the voltage goes down, the amperage goes up, and over time, you can approach the limit on the circuit breaker if it's close.

I could not find a stated amperage draw on the pump motor, the control box contains a connector rail, a power switch, a 20 amp circuit breaker and some type of coil or condenser cylinder. I was of the same deduction that this control box is intended to step down 240vac to 110ac but would like to clarify with someone more knowledgeable. Wires to the pump from the control box are colors blue, black, brown, and yellow with green stripe(ground).

 

[Reach4]

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/need-wiring-diagram-verification.62234/

 

[RandyVMD]

Is the pump submerged in water completely?

The motor and intake screen are in the water but he top 25 - 30% of the unit is above the water and the spring does not draw down at all, it continues to overflow the reservoir as the pump operates. The motor is at the bottom of the assembly and the top is the impeller portion of the unit.

 

[RandyVMD]

I could not find a stated amperage draw on the pump motor, the control box contains a connector rail, a power switch, a 20 amp circuit breaker and some type of coil or condenser cylinder. I was of the same deduction that this control box is intended to step down 240vac to 110ac but would like to clarify with someone more knowledgeable. Wires to the pump from the control box are colors blue, black, brown, and yellow with green stripe(ground).

 

[Jadnashua]

1100W at 110vac is 10A. Nothing in there would work as a step up...the placard states it is a 110vac motor, so it's unusual that it had a Euro plug on it. It could be reversible, but still not sure why you have three wires plus ground. The capacitor helps keep the relay contacts from bouncing and wearing out fast, or it's a start capacitor for the motor (more likely).

WIth the length of the attached cord, then an extension cord, the voltage drop as things warm up could be fairly high, driving the amperage up. Anything that drops the voltage is creating heat (resistive like a heating element) and making things less efficient. Worst case, it could exceed the capacity of the winding's, and burn the thing out. You could have issues with the receptacle where it's plugged in, too. High current can affect the spring tension on the contacts, and add resistance, and make things hotter and less efficient.

A submergible pump normally is literally submerged, and that helps it with cooling. If part of the body of the pump remains above the water surface, that can affect its life.

 

[Bgard]

That is a motor capacitor . Can you feel the pump motor when it is running? It shoul be cool, it is called a submersible for a reason

 

[Bgard]

With it only being a 50 uf capicator it is most likely a run capacitor also no start relay in the box.

 

[Bgard]

The wiring diagram only shows hot and neutral so it is only a single voltage motor

 

[Valveman]

Wow a 1.1KW motor is what we call a 1.5HP. Never seen one of those in 110 volts. With 110V it should be drawing about 24 amps. Might be drawing less if it is not pumping max flow like when the flow is restricted. At max flow a 1.5HP should use 24 amps. Plugs are not good at that amperage and you need at least #10 wire. Also too much amperage for a regular pressure switch. But did you really get that for 58 bucks?

Oh and 4 wires is common for a 3 wire submersible. The control box is required to change from 2 wires coming from the breaker to the 3 wires and a ground going to the motor.

 

[Jadnashua]

Power = volts * amps, or amps = Power (watts)/volts. If it is using 1100W/110 V, the amperage draw is 10A. Now, start current would be likely much higher and generally require a larger circuit to take that initial surge. Using too light a gauge of wire will create problems. As the voltage drops, the amperage will try to go up to compensate, until you trip the breaker or the windings burn up.

 

[RandyVMD]

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/need-wiring-diagram-verification.62234/

Great cross reference, thanks!

 

[RandyVMD]

Wow a 1.1KW motor is what we call a 1.5HP. Never seen one of those in 110 volts. With 110V it should be drawing about 24 amps. Might be drawing less if it is not pumping max flow like when the flow is restricted. At max flow a 1.5HP should use 24 amps. Plugs are not good at that amperage and you need at least #10 wire. Also too much amperage for a regular pressure switch. But did you really get that for 58 bucks?

Oh and 4 wires is common for a 3 wire submersible. The control box is required to change from 2 wires coming from the breaker to the 3 wires and a ground going to the motor.

Thanks for the insight, not sure where you referenced $58, bought the system on eBay in2016 for future use (now) and recall paying around $120.

 

[RandyVMD]

I am not too versed with all this electrical resistance info and am not sure I am processing all your comments accurately. Please comment on my summary. I am confident that the pump is in enough water to stay cool even though the top outflow flange is exposed.

110v supply seems to be inherently inadequate for length of supply wire, 50 foot extension cord is multi strand 12 ga grounded cord, would single strand 12/2 romex make any difference?

Would decreasing head pressure from 1 1/2" to 1" pipe change the current draw of the pump and allow it to function?
Don't really want to give up the water output.

Is direct wiring of this pump without the control box totally taboo?

My most practical fix for this overheating dilemma seems to be connecting the control box to 220v, will this work? Hate to invest the expense in wire and labor only to find this has flaws as well but I have plenty of room in my garage panel and can get the attached pump harness to within 125 feet.

Thanks all, quite impressed with your forum participation

 

[DonL]

I could not find a stated amperage draw on the pump motor, the control box contains a connector rail, a power switch, a 20 amp circuit breaker and some type of coil or condenser cylinder. I was of the same deduction that this control box is intended to step down 240vac to 110ac but would like to clarify with someone more knowledgeable. Wires to the pump from the control box are colors blue, black, brown, and yellow with green stripe(ground).

No it does not do that.

I would check the cap wiring, It looks like it was replaced using a different type. (Start-Run 2 section)

The connections to the cap have been Hot, As seen in your picture.

 

[Reach4]

Please comment on my summary. I am confident that the pump is in enough water to stay cool even though the top outflow flange is exposed.

Normally, if you are using a submersible pump to pump to a shallower depth, you orient the pump horizontally, and ideally put it into a flow inducer / sleeve to provide better motor cooling.

 

[Bgard]

That pump is 110 volts only, get rid of the extension cord and run # 10 wire directly from the breaker to the control box getting rid of the plugin setup