1993 Kohler Wellworth, Why does the toilet back up?

[Blumengarten]

Hi guys,

My mum's toilet backs up and overflows quite frequently. I'd thought for a long time it was her aide disposing of sanitary products there, but the aide left and it's been me taking care of mum so I know that nothing is going into the toilet that isn't supposed to be there.

My mum had the bathroom redone about 15 years ago. The connections are visible in the garage. The shower drain has a U curve, then goes horizontally across the garage ceiling about 4 feet where it attaches to the toilet drain. There is a T connection to the toilet drain and then it extends 2-1/2 feet to the wall, where it angles down at about a 45° angle to the pipe that takes it to the sewer. The section of pipe from the shower drain to toilet drain is PVC, about 2-1/2 inches diameter, then the section from the toilet to the wall is about 3-1/2" in diameter.

My mum did not have a licensed plumber install the toilet. It is a 1.6-gallon Kohler toilet. When she had it put in back in '93, I told her specifically not to get one of the low-flow toilets because of so many problems with them, and we don't live in an area of the country where there is even a remote chance of a water shortage. I don't know if this problem has persisted since '93, because my mum had a stroke and can't tell us now, and even if she could, she's the kind of person who would never admit this, but I can't imagine this problem spontaneously appeared after my mum had a stroke, so I think it's always been going on yet she never told anybody.

Can you tell if the problem is the toilet, or the piping? If the problem is in the toilet, would flushing twice after every use solve the problem?

Thanks,
Joy

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Have you seen the size of your mom's bowel movements?


If she only goes once a week, this might be why it clogs.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jimbo]

A 1.6 gallon toilet will not overflow the bowl, so probably someone has repaired that Kohler ( Wellworth possibly) and turned it into a 5 gallon flusher . Possibly installing a good pressure assisted toilet will give you a better flush and no overflows.

 

[Blumengarten]

My mum uses a diaper now so that's not the problem. Before her stroke, she was living alone, so I don't know what was going on then. For a year, it was just the aide using the toilet, and an occasional visitor, so that's why I thought the aide might be putting sanitary products down there, but now it's just me, and I move my bowels every day, so I don't think that's the problem. I've lived in my own house for 16 years with my husband and daughter and never once has the toilet backed up, ever, and anyways, a toilet should be able to handle bowel movements or it's worthless! I've gotten into the habit of always making sure it's cleanly flushing before leaving the bathroom, so I can hurridly take off the lid and shut off the flow, but this is really inconvenient, and sometimes I forget and walk away, only to hear Niagara Falls! After mum dies, I'd like to rent her house out for extra income, and I certainly don't want to have a tenant calling me over to plumb their clogged toilet. Gross!!!

 

[Blumengarten]

A 1.6 gallon toilet will not overflow the bowl, so probably someone has repaired that Kohler ( Wellworth possibly) and turned it into a 5 gallon flusher . Possibly installing a good pressure assisted toilet will give you a better flush and no overflows.

There doesn't appear to be anything in the tank that I don't see in my own (probably 1950's) toilet in my house. It doesn't have a ball float, but one of those newer things that rises up and down on a post, I don't know what they're called.

 

[Blumengarten]

I couldn't find any model name on the toilet either, it just says "Kohler 1.6 gallons / 6 liters per flush"

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Was she on blood pressure medication before she started using diapers?


Better hope she doesn't know we're talking about her on the intranet

 

[Blumengarten]

Was she on blood pressure medication before she started using diapers?


Better hope she doesn't know we're talking about her on the intranet

It is rather embarrassing, isn't it? Sorry to say she doesn't understand what's going on, but probably better for her. Yes, she'd been taking blood pressure medicine for several decades (strokes and related problems run in her family, but not my dad's, sure hope I inherited my dad's circulatory system!) Thanks for your concern!

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

The reason I mentioned blood pressure medication is because what passes through our body through medication can cause buildup in the trapway of the toilet along with the toilet's dirty arm.


Most if not all the toilets I pull where people are on blood pressure meds causes a gray honeycomb buildup in the trapway of the toilet along with the first 2-3 feet of the toilet drain. Most if it breaks away real easy but some of it is like concrete, and takes a great deal of effort to remove.


Certain allergy medications will cause this issue as well.

 

[Blumengarten]

Most if not all the toilets I pull where people are on blood pressure meds causes a gray honeycomb buildup in the trapway of the toilet along with the first 2-3 feet of the toilet drain. Most if it breaks away real easy but some of it is like concrete, and takes a great deal of effort to remove.

Certain allergy medications will cause this issue as well.

Oh wow, I never knew that! So it might just be something that's accumulated over the years. Can it be gotten rid of or should I replace the piping?

Thanks,
Joy

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

No way of knowing until you pull that toilet up, inspect the drain piping and look at the horn of that toilet to see.

I've seen some bad ones in my time and definitely, it's flow restricting all the way.


But then again, it could be a simple adjustment in the tank of the toilet. It can go that way as far as flushing goes.

 

[Blumengarten]

okay, thanks, I'll have my husband look at that, it's too gross for me to think of (and plumbers surely deserve all the money they get!).

Thanks,
Joy

 

[Blumengarten]

I'd replace the toilet and the piping (only because its easily reached). I'd start with a new toilet. Most have a 3" drain requirement, so that 2" line will have to be removed. Make sure that 3" line is graded at 1/4" per foot in length. And dont use Tees for connections, it can cause things to get trapped on the sharp edges.

These are all great suggestions too! My plumber thought that a higher-volume toilet would help, so I was thinking of taking the old toilet (3-gallon) from my house (the drain pipes to my bathroom, over 100 years old, are being replaced today) and exchanging it with the low-volume toilet in my mom's house. I thought that, since my toilet is next to the wall, and my mom's has such a long lateral, that would help flush things out. I'm not surprised about a 2" line being too narrow and the line not being graded, etc., I knew my mom not using a real plumber would eventually come back to haunt me!

Thanks,
Joy

 

[hj]

toilet

1. WHY would you recommend replacing the piping without having ANY idea of how it is installed?
2. A tee may be the best, or ONLY fitting that should be used depending on the placement.
3. 1.6 gpf toilets were probably the only ones made when that toilet was purchased.
4. I have never seen medication cause a stoppage in a toilet.

 

[Terry]

It is a 1.6-gallon Kohler toilet. When she had it put in back in '93

The first 1.6 gallon Kohler Wellworth with the tall tank was one of the worst toilets ever made. The trapway is very small and the bend, can I even call it a bend? makes a sharp right angle drop down.

Replace the toilet.

 

[Blumengarten]

The first 1.6 gallon Kohler Wellworth with the tall tank was one of the worst toilets ever made.

Wow! I'm not surprised. My bet is she's been having this problems since '93 and was too proud to admit it, now she can't because of her stroke.

Thanks for all your responses! You won't know how much I appreciate having all your opinions, it's good to hear someone back up the opinion of my own plumber!

Joy

 

[hj]

toilet

Look at the side of the toilet. Some Wellworths had a sharp bend at the bottom and some even had an internal restriction which caused stoppages.

 

[Xroad]

I bought a Kholer toilet 17 years ago. That was when the law mandate all to be low water volumn. That toilet clugs all the time. I don't thnk they did enough R&D. The toilet looks like a retrofit from an older model. I was not impress. Back then, Kohlers are expensive. I stayed away from Kohler anythng since.

Maybe it is easier to replace the toilet. $100 -$150. Easier than farting with the existing one. Unless the pipes were put in wrong ..... but you can easily check that.

 

[Blumengarten]

Look at the side of the toilet. Some Wellworths had a sharp bend at the bottom and some even had an internal restriction which caused stoppages.

I see that Terry edited my first post (putting a picture in it) and yep, that looks just like my mum's toilet! Yes, I see how the bend makes a sharp turn, I'd never noticed that before. You've discovered the reason for the backups without even seeing the house! You're wonderful!

 

[Gary Swart]

Kolher and other manufacturers tried to just tweak their old technology when the new low flow mandate came out. The results were, as you have found, terrible. Many people came to believe that a plunger was going to be used frequently and that all low flow toilets would be the same. Toto took a totally different approach and designed their toilets with larger trap ways and other improvements that makes their toilets work very well within the volume limits, and rarely need to be plunged. Sad to say, some of the old big names haven't kept pace too well.