Well x Trol -wx 302 Troubleshooting??

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Barodian

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Well x TrolWX 302

Pumps Circuit Breaker did go off when my wife was doing the laundry. That night sprinkler system did not work and in the morning dirty water was in the showers for first 5 to 10 minute which is back to normal color at the moment.

Normal water operation is working fine in the house like shower, faucet etc … without any pressure problem


What could be the problem?
If need to call for professional help then who that could be? Plumber?

Any help or reply is appreciated

Thanks
 

Gary Slusser

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The pressure tank won't have anything to do with the problems you had.

It sounds to me as if you used too much water and the well went 'dry', meaning the water level fell to the inlet of the pump. But that doesn't trip breakers...

Circuit breaker off usually means a short. Discolored water could be due to the water level in the well going down farther than normal or a cave in in a rock bore well, a glob of rust breaking off from iron in the water and rust build up in some plumbing etc..

You should have a well driller, pump guy or only a plumber that knows wells and pumps that is capable of pulling the pump look at your water system.
 

Barodian

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Discolored water was only after the Sprinker System time. It did recovered after few hours.
Isn't that dirty water will continue if the wall water level is down?

I did notice that if water was running for few minutes, Pump starts

Is this normal or pump should start at certain water Level drop in the Tank?
 
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Bob NH

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The WX-302 is an 80 gallon tank. If it is properly precharged, it will have a drawdown of about 24 gallons from pump-off to pump start. That is the reason for delay between starting to use water and starting the pump.

You should have a pressure gauge near the tank. If you watch the gauge you can observe the shutoff and pump-start pressures.

Do you have an electrtical control box associated with the pump? There is sometimes a control that shuts the pump off if the well runs out of water.

Tripping the circuit breaker is usually caused by drawing too much current. That can occur if the pump is trying to pump more water than its design point, such as could occur if the irrigation system is drawing more water than the the capacity of the pump.
 

Barodian

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The pressure gauge does not show any change. It is at 60PSi at the moment. The pump starts for barely a minute and shuts off, during that time no change in gauge reading.

And, yes there is electrical box associated with pump.I don't know what to expect once I open it up.
 

Bob NH

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Barodian said:
The pressure gauge does not show any change. It is at 60PSi at the moment. The pump starts for barely a minute and shuts off, during that time no change in gauge reading.

And, yes there is electrical box associated with pump.I don't know what to expect once I open it up.

The gauge is broken or the line to it is plugged. If that line is plugged, then it is possible that the line to the pressure switch is plugged.

Shut off the power and relieve the pressure. The gauge should go to zero. If it doesn't, remove the gauge. If it doesn't go to zero, replace the gauge.

Check the pipes to the gauge and switch. Make sure they aren't plugged. If they are, clean them out or replace them.

Make sure the pressure switch is clean and that it operates when the pressure is applied and released.

What are the markings on the control box associated with the pump? It could be a standard control box for a 3-wire pump, or it could be a device (some are called Pumptec) that shuts off the pump if the water goes low in the well.
 

Speedbump

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The easiest way to check your tank is to run water until the pump comes on. Shut off the water and let the pump refill the tank and shut off. Get a 5 gallon bucket and use it to see how many gallons of water you can get from the tank before the pump turns back on. I'll bet it's nowhere near 25 gallons and the tank is waterlogged. The rapid cycling is what can trip a breaker by heating it up as well as tripping the overload protector in the pump or blowing a start capacitor.

That size tank is not used with average size pumps, so I am assuming you have an oversized pump with a large sprinkler system which uses way more water than you could ever use in the home during a normal day. So in essence the pump is oversized for the application where a few more zones on the sprinkler system could have kept the pump size to normal.

bob...
 

Barodian

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Bob NH said:
The gauge is broken or the line to it is plugged. If that line is plugged, then it is possible that the line to the pressure switch is plugged.
You mean clogged?
Bob NH said:
Shut off the power and relieve the pressure. The gauge should go to zero. If it doesn't, remove the gauge. If it doesn't go to zero, replace the gauge.
How would i relieve the pressure? Is it by draining the water from the tank? I did drain about 3 gallons of water but there was no change in the gauge reading.
Bob NH said:
Check the pipes to the gauge and switch. Make sure they aren't plugged. If they are, clean them out or replace them.

Is that mean do i need to remove both the device from the T joint? If i do that isn't the water is going to comeout

Bob NH said:
Make sure the pressure switch is clean and that it operates when the pressure is applied and released.

should it be a spring? it looks clean. BTW pressure swtich is from Pro Tech and Pump Protecter is from Franklin Electric (1HP 230 volts)
 

Barodian

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speedbump said:
The easiest way to check your tank is to run water until the pump comes on. Shut off the water and let the pump refill the tank and shut off. Get a 5 gallon bucket and use it to see how many gallons of water you can get from the tank before the pump turns back on. I'll bet it's nowhere near 25 gallons and the tank is waterlogged. The rapid cycling is what can trip a breaker by heating it up as well as tripping the overload protector in the pump or blowing a start capacitor.

That size tank is not used with average size pumps, so I am assuming you have an oversized pump with a large sprinkler system which uses way more water than you could ever use in the home during a normal day. So in essence the pump is oversized for the application where a few more zones on the sprinkler system could have kept the pump size to normal.

bob...

I have a multi zone sprinkler system and it was working fine until last week. I have programmed for early mornings. When i bought the house it came with it.

And you right on the rapid cycle.. Pump starts as soon as i drained 5 gallons of water and stays on for about a 1 minute

If i understood correctly, In the normal operation pump should stay on for lot more than a minute. correct?
 

Speedbump

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Yes, it should give you apprx 25 gallons before the pump turns on and it should put 25 back. Your tank is bad and you need a new one. I highly recommend a smaller Bladder Tank and a Cycle Stop Valve, especially with the sprinkler system.

Not only will the pump motor last longer, but the smaller tank and CSV will cost you much less than another tank the size of you old one.

bob...
 
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Barodian

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What is the usual life of Well x Trol Tanks? MIne is probably around 10 years old.

Who usually installs the tanks? Can you recommend someone in Northern NJ?
What kind of cost i am looking at

Thanks in advance
 

Speedbump

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It has lived it's life being ten years old.

I guess you didn't like my suggestion about the CSV and smaller tank.

I am in Florida and wouldn't know anyone in NJ. I would call a Pump Tech or a Well Driller though if you need to have one installed.

bob...
 

Bob NH

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Whether you do it yourself or call a pump/well person to fix the problem, there must be a working gauge. That may involve removing the gauge and checking to see if it works, or if the line to it is plugged; and that problem must be fixed. Without a working gauge you are like a blind man trying to fix a watch.

You can relieve the pressure by turning off the power to the pump and running water until it stops coming out of the faucet. If the gauge doesn't lose pressure and indicate "zero" when the water stops running, then the gauge has failed or the line to it is clogged. Since the line to the pressure switch is usually connected near the gauge, if one is clogged they are probably both clogged.

You need to apply tools and logic to sort this out, and it may involve getting wet. If you are not comfortable with that, call someone who does wells and pumps. A plumber who has a big yellow-pages ad about unplugging your drains is not likely to be able to efficiently solve your problem.
 

Barodian

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Is not that i don't like your suggestion but i am new to all this so i have to read about your suggestion and find out how much it's going to cost and is it a best fit?

The sytem that i have is installed by the builder. Isn't the size goes with how many Bathrooms and rooms in the house?
 

Speedbump

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The size and number of bathrooms usually don't enter into tank sizing. The sizing is usually left up to the Well Driller who installed the whole system. Most Drillers go undersized as opposed to oversized.

The smaller tank I recommended is a small PC-66 42 gallon equivalent. Your old tank is a 220 gallon equivalent. The CSV keeps the pump running instead of letting it cycle itself to death. It will also make the tank last longer because of fewer cycles. With the CSV, tank size is no longer important.
bob...
 
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Barodian

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Bob NH said:
Whether you do it yourself or call a pump/well person to fix the problem, there must be a working gauge. That may involve removing the gauge and checking to see if it works, or if the line to it is plugged; and that problem must be fixed. Without a working gauge you are like a blind man trying to fix a watch.

You can relieve the pressure by turning off the power to the pump and running water until it stops coming out of the faucet. If the gauge doesn't lose pressure and indicate "zero" when the water stops running, then the gauge has failed or the line to it is clogged. Since the line to the pressure switch is usually connected near the gauge, if one is clogged they are probably both clogged.

You need to apply tools and logic to sort this out, and it may involve getting wet. If you are not comfortable with that, call someone who does wells and pumps. A plumber who has a big yellow-pages ad about unplugging your drains is not likely to be able to efficiently solve your problem.

Changed the gauge. after installing the new one it went from 38 to 60 with pump starting and stoping every few minutes. Now i can see after few flush the gauge reading changed but pump still start and stop in a minute.
I opened the switch all looks fine. no rust.. Only thing i haven't done is open the switch from the pipe and checked for clog.
What is next?
Pressure Switch or waterlogged Tank?
 
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Bob NH

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Presumably the pump is starting at 38 psi and stopping at 60 psi. If it takes one minute to go from start to stop, that is normal if you have a large pump. Now you should check the precharge pressure and add air to the tank if required.

Turn off the power to the pump and open a valve somewhere to use water. The pressure gauge should go to zero. Then, use a tire gauge to measure the pressure at the "tire valve" at the top of the tank. With the tank empty, the pressure should be set at 36 psi, which is 2 psi less than the START pressure of the switch. Add air if necessary.

After you get the air pressure set, start the pump and let it run until shutoff. Then observe how long it takes to lose pressure when you aren't using any water. If it restarts in a few minutes when you aren't using any water, then you probably have a leak in a check valve or a leak in a pipe between pump and tank, or you are using water that you are not aware of.

You still may have a failed bladder. If you do, that will be revealed by reduced time from start to stop after a few days of operation.
 

Barodian

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i emptied out the tank when i replaced the Gauge. It took multiple pump on /off to reach 60 PSI after i installed the new Gauge and turned on the power.
The pump doesn't start if I don't use the water. What i noticed that when i do use water and pressure drops ( about 5 to 10 PSI), the pump starts and does it usual start/stop about for a minute until it reaches 60 and than stays off...
 

Bob NH

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Barodian said:
i emptied out the tank when i replaced the Gauge. It took multiple pump on /off to reach 60 PSI after i installed the new Gauge and turned on the power.
The pump doesn't start if I don't use the water. What i noticed that when i do use water and pressure drops ( about 5 to 10 PSI), the pump starts and does it usual start/stop about for a minute until it reaches 60 and than stays off...

Your description of the pump starting when the pressure drops when you use water and the pressure drops 5 to 10 psi doesn't make any sense if you have a pressure switch that is operating between 38 and 60 psi as you have described. If it stops at 60 psi it shouldn't start until the pressure drops to 36 psi.

To help us all understand what is happening, please take a piece of paper and write down the actual pressure of each event (each pump start and each pump stop) as observed on the gauge, and the clock time in minutes and seconds for each event.

Your report that the pump doesn't start if you don't use any water says that you don't have a leak in the supply pipe or the check valve.

Please describe the "multiple pump on/off to reach 60 psi". Are the on/off intervals in the range of 5 seconds or less? What are the pressure readings when this "multiple on/off" occurs? If it is a rapid cycling (a few seconds per cycle) then the tank is almost certainly waterlogged. I find that very unexpected if indeed the tank was emptied when you replaced the gauge.

The tank is not necessarily empty when the pressure is zero, especially if it has been waterlogged. I suggest that you try again to empty the tank using the following procedure.

1. Shut off the power.
2. Open a faucet and leave it open.
3. Apply air pressure to the "tire stem" on the top of the tank, adding air to raise the pressure to 36 psi as measured by a tire gauge.
4. Rock the tank back and forth to verify that the tank is indeed empty. It should have absolutely no water in it. It should feel light and empty.
5. After ensuring that the tank is empty, close the faucet and start the pump.
 

Abikerboy

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Barodian said:
It took multiple pump on /off to reach 60 PSI after i installed the new Gauge and turned on the power....the pump starts and does it usual start/stop about for a minute until it reaches 60 and than stays off...
I would guess that your pump motor is fried, or if it's a "3-wire" pump, the control box could be bad. The pump should not cycle on and off before the pressure reaches 60...it should come on at the 38 psi, and run until it reaches 60 psi, and then shut off. With yours, the motor gets hot, the overload opens and stops the pump, motor cools, and the overload closes and restarts the pump. That would also explain why the breaker tripped when you were doing laundry. Your dirty water when the sprinkler tried to come on could be from deposits coming off the inside of the pipe when the pressure dropped, or maybe the sprinkler doesnt have a backflow device in its main line, and dirty ground water entered the system when the sprinkler valve came on without any water flow.
 
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