Replacing cast iron and adding bathrooms to basement

Discussion in 'UPC Plumbing Code Questions' started by 701_Fargo, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    House is in Fargo , ND. Built in 1947.

    Cast iron sewer lines had to get replaced... so decided we might as well add two bathrooms and laundry drain line while we had concrete broke out. I am fairly confident I got under floor plumbing correctly laid out, but want to get this checked over before I start to prime and glue and call for inspection. Obviously, I still have to measure and cut to length a few pieces.

    E611D760-B99B-4D44-AEF6-EDD6E050BA80.jpeg

    From left to right...1.) 2” sink wet venting a 2.) 2” Floor drain and 3.) Toilet with 3” drain line. 4.) 2” washing machine drain line and 5.) 2” shower drain with p trap and vent ( Ignore the copper water lines at top of photo, they will get relocated.)

    535BA996-2085-44B4-87BE-566ED1DE0E46.jpeg

    Second bath is half bath with 3” drain and 2” vent. Sink drain for this bath will tie into the sewer stack, so nothing under floor.
    A back flow valve will also be added to 4” main line close to where the drain exits the house
     
  2. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Looks like ND uses the UPC.

    On the backflow preventer, what is the elevation of "the next upstream manhole cover"? Which fixtures may or may not flow through the backflow preventer is specified here:

    https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-plumbing-code-2019/chapter/7/sanitary-drainage#710.0

    Otherwise I don't see any DWV layout issues. I take it you'll be using a trench drain at one edge of the shower? That's convenient for allowing a close vent take off like you have.

    Is a trap primer required for your floor drain?

    Cheers< Wayne
     
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    Thanks for the eyeballs, Wayne.

    ND has its own code, so wasn’t sure what forum was appropriate to post in. When in doubt, I ask the inspection office lots of questions. Generally, they are very helpful if you ask if something specific is allowed (a yes/no question). Homeowners are allowed to work on their residences in ND, permit/inspection required.

    I am required to install a back flow valve any place between the building entrance and the first basement fixture. So lots of flexibility there. BTW, everyone has a basement in this area.

    The shower drain will be custom... located in the corner of the shower to take advantage of the preexisting slope of the floor to the original floor drain. Vent till go up wall that will have the water lines and shower valve in it.

    Never have heard of a trap primer, so that would be a good questions for inspection, but am sure they are not required. In my case, the furnace condensation line will be routed along the wall to use this floor drain, so I won’t have problems with it evaporating dry.
     
  5. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Sorry, I didn't check which forum the post was in. It is the UPC with amendments, so this forum makes sense.

    On the backflow valve, ND hasn't amended that part, as you can see here:

    http://epubs.iapmo.org/2018/NorthDakota/#p=94

    So the point is that most likely the basement fixtures, and only the basement fixtures are to be protected by the backwater valve. So adding the backwater valve on the main line close to where it exits the house would not be compliant.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  6. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    I have had more that one plumbing inspector go over my floor plan drawn on graph paper. Both specifically made a point of asking me to point out where I will be installing a backwater valve.

    As you may know, about once every 10 years Fargo has the potential for a serious spring flood event...so even if the city didn’t require a back flow valve I would be foolish to not add something to protect my house. Because Fargo is very flat, the concern for homeowners is sewer backup from basement level fixtures.

    Again, I really appreciate your review.
     
  7. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
    92346
    Like Wayne said the backflow valve does have do's and don'ts . I think some places don't enforce code and throw a backwater valve on the whole house and on floor drains in basements (of which I have little experience) some places don't push Trap primers on residential . I did plumb 36 homes in Nevada years ago with basements and inspector didn't want primers. But for me a floor drain always has trap primers , and a backwater valve doesn't go on second floor of a house with upstream man hole elevation below those fixtures.
    Maybe just basement on BW valve?
     
  8. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    I will change so only basement fixtures have back water valves. I am doing this the right way!

    Is this layout an option? (FYI... pipes NOT cut to size, just trying to do a rough layout of the option) This would allow me to get away with just one BW valve. If not, I will go back to original plan with a BW valve for each branch off the main.

    upload_2021-2-4_19-43-15.jpeg
     
  9. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    Our project snowballed... we are also going to add a half bath to main floor, too.

    But I order to break a smaller amount of concrete in basement we are relocating the drain currently serving just the main floor kitchen sink. The sink is not vented in any way, but I see a pipe that I think is an abondoned vent from the original sink location when house was built in 1947. (Considering the style of the kitchen the remodel was probably done in 60’s.)

    Relocating the kitchen sink drain makes adding a half bath an option. So now need to see how to best vent everything... I am sure this is correct way to wet vent new half bath. Is there any reason to tie in abandoned vent?

    image.jpg

    Husband says it would be easier to do this, but thinking probably NOT to code

    image.jpg

    Another option that would keep the kitchen sink drain separate from the half bath. Just not sure if distance between vent and toilet also makes this not to code.

    image.jpg
     
  10. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
    92346
    New kitchen sink should have vent maybe tie to abandoned vent if still going through roof. If pipes aren't being used I have 2 thoughts 1 disconnect and permanently cap it as close to main 2 leave in place as for future use later to avoid more work and demo later.
    A lot going on here and thinking something been done since Feb. 4th, did you find out about the trap primer? a trap primer drips water into trap to insure it doesn't dry out and allow gas /stink in room.
    The only place I worked residential where basements and floor drains were common was Elko NV. many years ago and other plumbers, that were from there and Utah, Colorado told me that trap primers were often not used on homes and enforcement varied. If I was building own home I think Id want one otherwise you gotta pour some water down drain every so often, so many people been doing that so long that they don't care.
     
  11. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Haven't reviewed your earlier posts, but with respect to the half-bath, only option 1 is a UPC-compliant wet vent. The WC fixture drain is limited to 5' by the UPC, so the sink drain/wet vent has to join the WC fixture drain within the first 5'. The sink vent and drain after the trap arm need to be 2".

    As to the kitchen sink, it needs a vent, and AAVs aren't an option. Your vent takeoff has to be within 42" of the sink trap outlet (for a 1-1/2" trap).

    ND may have amended some of the sections of the UPC that bear on the above, I haven't checked for that.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  12. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    We definitely are project people!

    Basement bath is all roughed in, so we turned our focus on adding the main floor half bath. We had space and with only one bathroom on main floor, figured a second would be a huge asset.

    I am 99% sure trap primers are not used here, at least not in residential construction. As a realtor, I have sat in many new construction meetings/home inspections and it has never been brought up. But my floor drain will serve my gas furnace/AC condensation line, so it should never get a chance to dry out
     
  13. 701_Fargo

    701_Fargo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2021
    Location:
    Fargo ND
    We figured that we needed to go with option 1 to properly install the new half bath, so good to know that is how we must move forward.

    I don’t have many options for venting the existing kitchen sink... we are not doing any work in that area of the house, so I might be forced to think outside the box... may try make a connection closer to the trap. I will get out my tape measure.
     
  14. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
  15. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
    92346
    My guess is the primers are code there as it is here . they can be added later if needed since its next to mechanical equipment wouldn't be an issue of being unsightly . 1/2 bath one of the drawings looks under 6 foot for vent
     
Similar Threads: Replacing cast
Forum Title Date
UPC Plumbing Code Questions Are rubber donuts to transition from cast iron to PVC allowed in PA Feb 28, 2015

Share This Page