# Kinetico Came to Do their Sales Pitch

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##### Water systems designer, R&D
Not adjustable, estimated on at 70%. A standard ASV is 40-60%

#### CountryBoy19

##### Member
Not adjustable, estimated on at 70%. A standard ASV is 40-60%
How does shut-off/activation pressure correlate to tank volume?

If tank volume correlates to pressure in a linear manner it would seem a 20% spread wouldn't make a difference in the amount the system cycles for a given water usage, it would only change the amount stored in the tank. Right?

Can you share a bit more about how the 90% ASV would decrease the number of activation cycles?

We don't normally fill a pitcher, we usually fill cups right from the faucet so I'm still concerned about the # of cycles.

I browsed your catalog a bit but didn't see much detail listed on your RO systems (RE: ASV specifics etc)

FWIW, I'm an engineer, just not in the field of water filtration. I'm just trying to better understand how that would work.

##### Water systems designer, R&D
A PP opens and closes at a very minimal pressure differential, estimated 98/96

A 90% ASV shuts off at 90% and opens at 70%

Since the tank uses compressed air, more pressure = more water. More water (larger tank) would increase the volume between cycles.

#### CountryBoy19

##### Member
A PP opens and closes at a very minimal pressure differential, estimated 98/96

A 90% ASV shuts off at 90% and opens at 70%

Since the tank uses compressed air, more pressure = more water. More water (larger tank) would increase the volume between cycles.
Let me phrase my question another way.

Making the assumption that tank volume is proportional to tank pressure. IE, at 10% pressure the tank contains 10% of max volume, @ 50% pressure it contains 50% volume, and 90% pressure it contains 90% volume.

If the "getting a glass of water" thing trips a 60/40 ASV, it would also trip the 90/70 ASV because both ASVs take the same volume drawdown to turn on correct?

##### Water systems designer, R&D
One of the points of a PP is that they fill the tank with more water than a traditional RO. A PP hides the back pressure of the tank from the membrane. Membranes need a differential pressure to operate properly. Thus the use of either no ASV or a 90% ASV. You can use a 60% ASV with a PP but you lose one of its enhancements. WOW overcomes some of these issues but the complexity, proprietary design, and other problems are simply not worth the tiny advantage that you can get with WOW.

A PP has no limit on tank size or number of tanks. I have even been successful using the ERP1000 with up to 500 GPD membranes (other than the noise). We use these with 119 Gallon RO tanka all the time for many light commercial applications. WOW can only do this by adding more systems. I am sure someone can develop a larger system but the cost would be too high considering the very limited market and the unnecessary complexity that a simple PP can work almost as well.

A 60% ASV is used on traditional systems since it keeps an adequate differential pressure across the membrane, but as the tank pressure builds, the production rate goes down thus the efficiency decreases since the waste stream stays the same.

All that being said, 25 years ago a lot of this mattered since the technology was complex and expensive. Now a high end RO is can be had for about \$500, a Piece of garbage RO is about \$100

#### CountryBoy19

##### Member
One of the points of a PP is that they fill the tank with more water than a traditional RO. A PP hides the back pressure of the tank from the membrane. Membranes need a differential pressure to operate properly. Thus the use of either no ASV or a 90% ASV. You can use a 60% ASV with a PP but you lose one of its enhancements. WOW overcomes some of these issues but the complexity, proprietary design, and other problems are simply not worth the tiny advantage that you can get with WOW.

A PP has no limit on tank size or number of tanks. I have even been successful using the ERP1000 with up to 500 GPD membranes (other than the noise). We use these with 119 Gallon RO tanka all the time for many light commercial applications. WOW can only do this by adding more systems. I am sure someone can develop a larger system but the cost would be too high considering the very limited market and the unnecessary complexity that a simple PP can work almost as well.

A 60% ASV is used on traditional systems since it keeps an adequate differential pressure across the membrane, but as the tank pressure builds, the production rate goes down thus the efficiency decreases since the waste stream stays the same.

All that being said, 25 years ago a lot of this mattered since the technology was complex and expensive. Now a high end RO is can be had for about \$500, a Piece of garbage RO is about \$100
Now it's starting to make sense. Thanks for sticking with me on this!

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Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

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