In-line Vent and slow basement sink drain?????

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by jasesun23, May 16, 2019.

  1. jasesun23

    jasesun23 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Location:
    nyc
    Hope you guys can help me. Try to give as much info as possible without going on and on.
    I have a basement sink and laundry machine set up (pics attached) It drains to a drywell in the driveway. The rest of the 2 story house drains to a septic tank on the side of the house to a leaching field on the front lawn.
    The old setup that I replace had a piece of rubber tubing just venting into the basement ceiling. When I installed new everything, instead of just venting to the ceiling I added a Air Admittance Valve. When the sink fills up from the laundry machine it drains so slow. If I take the AAV off it drains quickly. The AAV is working correctly as once the sink fully drains I hear it letting air in.
    I read in another thread to put a plastic bag on top and see if it fills up or sucks in. So I taped a ziplock bag to the pipe and the dumped a bucket of water in. It ballooned up with air, so it seems to be a positive pressure issue.
    What are my options?
    Thanks for any help in advance.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  2. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    New York
    You better hope a NYC building inspector ever stops by . Your looking at major fines

    NYC l has gone fine crazy lately and taking away people's CEO

    Good luck
     
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  4. jasesun23

    jasesun23 Member

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    When would a building inspector come to a private home for no reason. Thats sounds absurd.

    Hopefully someone else can share what some decent options are.
     
  5. plumber69

    plumber69 In the Trades

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    Tie the aav pipe in a dry vent
     
  6. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Member

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    The trap should be vented, sink should drain into some kind of ejector pump that should also be vented. If you really don't care, why not just remove the AAV and trap? You're just dumping this water into the ground. To be clear, I don't suggest this, and I would not do it.
     
  7. jasesun23

    jasesun23 Member

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    Plumber69 only issues with that is I have no clue if one of these 3 vertical pipes is dry. The first pvc is the upstairs shower, the furthest is the downstairs shower, so that just leaves the middle. Don't know if thats sinks, toilets, or maybe dry.

    Is venting it outside to just above the foundation okay. Similar to how my dryer vents out of the basement.


    DIYorBust isn't using a AAV venting the trap? You probably mean vent to outside, as my problem is positive pressure which a AAV isn't helping in anyway.
    And are you recommend an ejector pump to pump that laundry and sink water up to the drainage pipe that the whole house is using? If that is the case I don't want soapy laundry water going to my septic tank.

    To add this is how everything was set up originally, I've just changed out some pvc pipe and update fixtures.

    In theory if this is just going to a drywell in the driveway, and there is no sewage just grey water from the laundry machine I shouldn't even need a vent or a trap, correct? If that is the case I'm no sure why there is an odor when I leave the AAV off.

    And thanks for the replies plumber69 and DIYorBust.
     
  8. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Member

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    If you're in nyc you cannot use an aav or discharge your laundry sink into a drywell. Your setup would probably earn you a spot on nyc's most wanted list, and any Plumber walking into your house would run away for fear of losing his/her license. However if that is not your location, than you probably just need to tie into a vent as mentioned, there may be other issues depending on local code.
     
  9. jasesun23

    jasesun23 Member

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    nyc
    All very interesting, thanks for the info.

    So I spoke to my parents, its their house. Apparently I misspoke, there is a small septic tank system in the middle of the driveway and the dry-well is at the end of the drive way. They said they had it cleaned once or twice when they moved in but haven't in 35 years, that's why I never knew about it. They only clean the main septic tank on the side of the house.

    Now need to figure out a good way to vent this outside. Its so odd that the person who built the house just had a rubber hose going up to the basement ceiling as a vent. Don't know why he didn't tie it into the main DWV piping of the house.
     
  10. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Member

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    They probably figured laundry water wouldn't produce any sewer gas. I don't know I've never seen a system like that around here.
     
  11. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    If the laundry is not tied into the septic system, it is really no different than just discharging it out onto the lawn. The trap and vent really dont serve any purpose.
     
  12. jasesun23

    jasesun23 Member

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    Very much appreciate everyone help.
    Cacher_chick I'm learning a little as I go and I'm getting more info from my parents. The laundry is definitely not hooked up to the main septic system that the whole house is set up to. The toilets, showers, dishwashers, sinks, everything on the first and second floors goes to the "main" septic tank on the the side of the house.
    The washer machine and basement sink drains are lower then the main septic line going to the side of the house. In 1957 when the house was built they did not have ejector pumps to pump the basement sink water up to the main septic line. That is why it has is own line going to the driveway which is lower.
    You are correct in saying that there really is no difference as discharging it to the lawn except according to my parents there is a small septic tank on that line as well. A couple years ago I replaced the old metal sink and pipes with a plastic laundry sink and pvc pipe. I copied exactly what was there in the original lay out, that's why there is a p trap and a vent. I put a pvc p trap because there was an old metat p trap. I put a AAV because there was a rubber 1 inch hose venting to the ceiling in the basement. I'm glad to find out there is a septic tank in line with the dry-well in the driveway as I have been made aware its against code to go directly into a drywell even though its only grey water. But even going into a small septic tank it still doesn't get any sewage water from toilets, so I'm not sure if a Vent and P trap are necessary. The last thing though with the AAV unscrewed there def is a slight odor, doesn't smell like sewage but def a not great smell. If it was just laundry water and no sewage should it have any smell coming out the vent at all
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  13. mliu

    mliu Member

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    I doubt that statement is true. Electric pumps have been around for about 100 years. Just because it wasn't installed, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

    Even "clear" water, if left stagnant, will harbor bacteria and other organisms over time. Laundry water contains phosphates from the detergent, food residue, sweat, dead skin cells, trace amounts of feces, etc., all of which can make a nasty soup for growing odorous bacteria. Do you really think it won't eventually become noxious?

    Even indirect waste piping (i.e., a drain that opens into free air over another drain) with a developed length over 30" measured horizontally, or 54" total, is required to be trapped.

    As for your positive pressure draining problem, I suspect the issue is your septic tank was using the laundry sink drain pipe as its vent. Once you put the AAV on that vent, you essentially created a sealed enclosure inside your septic tank. The water from your sink can not drain into the tank because it's trying to displace air in the septic tank that now has nowhere to go.
     
  14. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Member

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    In the old days, there was less oversight. People might have known what they were doing when the plumbed a laundry sink into the ground. The system being replaced may have been a washboard and galvanized tub in the yard anyway. They also might not have worried too much about a funky odor in the basement. They probably also didn't care too much if their pipes were insulated with asbestos, their boiler was 60% efficient, their food was 90% butter, you get the idea. If I'm going to rebuild something like this, I'd try my best to do it to 2019 standards, rather than what would fly in 1950 or 1920, in a place that probably had zero code enforcement.

    If you are going to DIY in a private house, you can get away with some things that don't matter. For example, if you want a shower that delivers up to 140 degrees, that's now against code most places. But if it's you're house and you really want that then I say go for it. But if you have an old janky sink that vents in to the house, and it's time to rebuild the plumbing, I'd say at least plumb it right. You can get an on slab ejector pump and dump it into your main septic tank, but if you think that's too much for it, then keep it on it's current drain and deal with that when the time comes. Now some folks might tell you that you basically need to re-plumb the whole house and add a new septic system and whatever. But that will cost a fortune.

    So the question is how good a job do you want to do, and I think venting your trap properly makes sense. It will work well, and you will feel better about it, and learn some neat stuff about plumbing in the process. But if you can't accomplish that, I guess technically you haven't made it any worse by venting to the room, though I could never leave a project like that.
     
  15. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not proposing that it is in any way the right thing to do. There are varying degrees of what is an acceptable practice depending on where you live. In some places greywater can be discharged freely. Any system you have degraded with age, and your secondary tank might be full of sludge, or the dry well may no longer be able to function due to contamination. The most economical thing to do at this point is to get the line clear to make sure it is not a partial blockage or pipe failure. In the bigger picture, the right thing to do is to bring the plumbing up to what the current standard is for your location.
     
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Your dry well creates a "closed system", and the AAV CANNOT relieve the positive pressure created when anything drains.
     
  17. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    plumbing- - fire suppression
    Location:
    New York
    "When would a building inspector come to a private home for no reason. Thats sounds absurd. " <<< your right forget I even mentioned it



    AAV's have never been approved in NYC or had blind vents and the newest code does allow for wet venting

    If you think NYC doesnt care if you have a septic why not call the DOB or DEP and tell them about t your private sewer disposal system

    Septic systems are rarely found inside the five boroughs of NYC. Almost all areas have a public sewer system fronting their property at this time which they are connected to. There are some exceptions such as Douglaston Manor which is located in Northeast Queens. Previous exceptions were Broad Channel and Hamilton Beach both also located in Queens, which both now have access to the public sewer system. When a public sewer is installed a property owner typically has around six months to connect to it or face fines and penalties. Some owners manage to fall between the cracks of enforcement and delay connecting for reasons of their own even though they risk being fined.
















    '
    Hopefully someone else can share what some decent options are.
     
  18. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Member

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    I'm gathering that the OP lives in NYC, but the franken-plumbing is at his parent's place somewhere more remote.
     
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