Fleck 5600 Settings

[acicomp]

Hey folks.

I just installed my Fleck 5600SXT 64,000 Grain (2 Cu. Ft.) and wanted to confirm my setting for efficiency. I am shooting for a 6lb rate to start with. We have 15gpg hardness and the valve is labeled .50gpm.

The settings I have are as follows:
DF - Gal
RT - df 1b
CT - Fd
NT - 1
C - 40
H - 15
RS - SF
SF - 15
DO - 10
RT - 2:00
BW - 10
BO - 60
RR - 10
BF - 11
FM - t0.7

Thanks for any input!

 

[Bannerman]

While the 40 C setting is correct for 2 cuft with a 12 lb salt setting (6 lbs/cuft), your 11 minute brine fill (BF) is too long.

Assuming the 0.5 gpm is referring to the BLFC, then 11 min X 0.5 = 5.5 gals X 3 lbs/gal = 16.5 lbs of salt. For a 12 lb salt setting, the BF would need to be 8 minutes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[acicomp]

Thanks. I'll make that change this afternoon. I'm still trying to learn all the brine setting and what each function does.

 

[Bannerman]

As the 5600 normally performs the brine fill as the last stage of the regeneration cycle, there may not be enough brine prepared for the next regen cycle after the programming change. If there is too little water in the brine tank, then not enough capacity will be restored during the upcoming regen cycle so you would be best to manually add more water to achieve the desired amount. As it takes 2-3 hours for the proper amount of salt to be desolved after fresh water has been added, if you're planning on performing a regen after adding water, you would then wait those 2-3 hours.

If more brine than is initially needed has been produced, that is not an issue as the softener will restore whatever capacity has been utilized and will flush the excess brine to the drain.

 

[Reach4]

If you are on city water, and if you had two people, I would do something like what I show below. The RS = rc and RC = 120 says to regenerate at 2AM if there is not 120 gallons of capacity left. Your RS = SF and SF = 15 says that the system should regenerate unless there is 40000*0.15= 6000 grains of capacity still remaining. That is 400 gallons at 15 grains of hardness.

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 6 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Raw hardness = 15 ; including any compensation
People = 2 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 120 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 22.2 ; Computed days ignoring reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 40.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 15 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 120 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 28 ; Day Override
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 8 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = usually t0.7 ; flow meter, make note of what is there

 

[acicomp]

We have 7 people in the house, which is why I chose the 15%. Roughly, the 400 gallons would be just shy of a day of usage at 420 gallons (7 people x 60 gallons per day) if we maxed out water usage for the day. Normally speaking, the 2:00am time frame is wide open, but that should leave is a day of usage just in case.

Based on that number, would I still be best to change the BW and RR to 5 minutes or leave it at 10 minutes?

Also, this was a new install last night and the instruction said to add water to the brine tank until the water was approximately 2 inches above the grid in my 18x33 tank. Should I add more water now and wait until the scheduled regeneration or should I add more water and then do a manual regeneration in order to make sure everything is good to go now instead of waiting. IF adding water now is the best option, how much more should I add to make sure the next regeneration will properly refill?

Thanks again!

 

[ditttohead]

Run it through a manual regeneration and leave it alone, it will take care of the rest. As to the BW and RR, 5 minutes is typically adequate and causes no problems in the vast majority of applications. It will also save a little water.

 

[acicomp]

Thanks for all the input and help!

 

[Reach4]

Based on that number, would I still be best to change the BW and RR to 5 minutes or leave it at 10 minutes?

Also, this was a new install last night and the instruction said to add water to the brine tank until the water was approximately 2 inches above the grid in my 18x33 tank. Should I add more water now and wait until the scheduled regeneration or should I add more water and then do a manual regeneration in order to make sure everything is good to go now instead of waiting. IF adding water now is the best option, how much more should I add to make sure the next regeneration will properly refill?

I think the 5 minute number was for saving a bit of water. 10 minutes will work great.

4 gallons is 924 cubic inches. With an 18 inch square tank, that would be 2.85 inches. So you would want the water above the salt grid by at least that. Unless the directions say to do so, I would not do an immediate regeneration, unless you wanted to. If you feel like it, you could note how deep the water is first, time how long it takes to draw the brine out of the tank, and note the depth of the water when the water has been drawn. While this info could be a bit useful later, don't do it routinely.

 

[ditttohead]

whoops, ignore

 

[acicomp]

I am assuming that checking the water is as simple as looking down the tube where the float is? We added 160lbs of salt, so I didn't think I would be able to check the water level other than that since the salt was above the initial water level. I figured it couldn't hurt to check just in case I missed something here. This is my first softener and install.

I guess if I did one manual regeneration now, it would also allow me to go ahead and check my drain to make sure it was all working properly instead of waiting 6 days and finding out something went wrong and my basement is full of water one morning when I wake up. Never a good way to start your day.

Thanks

 

[acicomp]

All went well and the regeneration is complete. The Fleck screen is telling me I have 2400 gallons left. I set the BW and RR to 5, and the BF to 8. While I may have "wasted" a little salt, I feel much better knowing the system is tested and everything works, including the drain. After the regeneration, we ran two tests. The first was with the Hach 5-EP and there is no sign of hard water. The second was much more scientific in nature. My wife simply made some sweet tea. No signs of the hard water in the boiling pot or the jug. Finally, after two years of being in the house, we have tea that doesn't make you think twice before you drink it! Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[Bannerman]

The gallonage appears to be approx correct as 40K grains / 15 gpg - reserve = ~2200 - 2400 gallons

Depending on your hot water useage, it may take a day or so for the hard water already in your tank type water heater, to be fully replaced with soft water. Since heat causes some of the hardness minerals to precipitate out of the hard water, to collect on the internal tank and plumbing surfaces, those deposits will be slowly dissolved by the soft water so the hot water may continue to contain some level of hardness until the deposits are eventually all eliminated.

As you have been compensating for hard water, remember to reduce the amount of detergent now used for your dishwasher, laundry and shampoo for hair washing. Best to start with about half the quantity and adjust from there. Even 1/2 the amount maybe too much as there maybe too many suds in the laundry. Dishwashing with too much dishwasher detergent, can strip the finish off of some surfaces, resulting in cloudy etching clearly visible on some glassware.

 

[acicomp]

It's funny you mentioned the amount of detergent. In my previous post, I started to say that was my third scientific test... Soap was actually lathering again. Thanks for the reminder about cutting back on detergent usage! Hard water, over time, had destroyed the dishwasher last week and we just replaced it. The new one actually has two lines marked in the soap dispenser. One marked for hard water (Almost to the top) and the other marked for soft water (About the half way mark).

Thankfully, we have a Rinnai tankless hot water heater I put in last year and I just did the annual maintenance flush about 3 or 4 days ago, so we will only have to deal with the residual left in the lines.

 

[acicomp]

Just curious about one more thing... Where the drain hose hooks to the 5600sxt valve, it is labeled as having 1 injector and rated at 3.5gpm. Does that have any bearing on any of the programmed settings? I figured I would ask while I was at it.

 

[Bannerman]

The 3.5 gpm specified, is not related to the injector.

The injector acts as a venturi to draw brine from the brine tank. As a #2 Blue injector is the proper (usual) size for a 12" or 13" diameter tank, the water flowing through the injector during the BD phase of the regen cycle, will be 0.84 gpm, which will create suction on the brine port to draw brine at 0.56 gpm. Once the quantity of brine lowers to the pickup screen in the brine tank, an air-check valve (floating ball) closes to prevent air from being drawn into the system. The 0.84 gpm injector flow continues to rinse the brine through and off of the resin, out of the resin tank. Brine is usually all drawn within 15 minutes while the remaining 45 minutes of the 60 minute BD setting is used for the slow rinse.

The 3.5 gpm relates to the 'drain line flow control' (DLFC) button installed in the drain port. The DLFC resembles a washer with a specific size hole which the drain discharge flows through, limiting the rate of drain flow. That rate corresponds to the amount of flow required within your 12" diameter tank, to lift the resin during backwash (5 minute BW setting) and flowing downwards during Rapid Rinse.

Backwash causes the resin granules to be loosened to permit debris to be flushed away and also to provide more complete contact with the brine. The Rapid Rinse will repack the resin tightly so that service flow is forced to flow through the resin bed instead of the spaces between the granules.

Edited to ask: Does the label specify a #1 injector is installed? If so the flow rates for the #1 White injector would then be 0.45 gpm rinse and 0.38 gpm brine, which MAY require a longer BD setting.

Now that you have set the appropriate BF setting, it would be good to be in attendance during the next regen cycle to measure the time required to draw all the brine from the brine tank. That should be 1/4 of the BD setting to be programmed.

 

[acicomp]

It was roughly 15 minutes to empty, but I will definitely pay closer attention next time. I have attached a pic of the 2 labels that are on the 5600sxt.

 

[Bannerman]

My injector info was obtained from the 5600 mechanical Service Manual, chart on page 3. http://www.water-right.com/library/documents/Fleck-Econominder-manual.pdf . The column on the far right is headed incorrectly.

The Service Manual for the 5600SXT is located here: http://www.andersonpumphouse.com/mrws/filedriver/5600SXT_Downflow_Service_Manual.pdf

If the brine is all drawn in 15 or so minutes, that is OK and does not require a programming change. If the slow rinse time is insufficient, then you would experience salty water initially following each regen cycle.

 

[acicomp]

Thanks Bannerman for all the info. In the mean time, I have also sent Ohio Pure Water and email about the injector size. I have seen several sites that show a #2 injector listed for a 5600sxt with the 12" resin tank. I'll see what they have to say. That's an increase of almost 87% on the rinse and 48% on the draw just by going to the #2 injector.

I am curious to know if there is a difference in the injectors for the 5600/5600 Econominder vs. the 5600SXT... Based on the chart in the link you sent, the 12" tank should have the #2 injector, 1.0 gpm BLFC and 3.5 DLFC. If that is accurate for the 5600SXT, it seems like the only thing that is "right" would be the 3.5 gpm rating. Everything else would be slightly small for the 12" tank.

 

[Reach4]

Suppose your brine draw with a #1 injector is 0.35 or less. If we assume that the 4 gallons you put in turned into 4 gallons of brine, at 0.35, the brine draw would take 0.5*8/0.35=11.43 minutes. (since it takes 8 minutes to put it there at 0.5 GPM. Actually the volume pulled out may be a bit larger due to the added salt, but it will still be under 15 minutes. Usually it is recommended that BD be 4* the actual brine draw time, with the rest of the cycle being slow rinse. So at Bd=60, you are right there with a bit to spare.

A smaller injector is better at brining efficiently, if you have the time. If you used much more salt, then you would increase the Bd accordingly.