Fleck 5600 bleed air after cleaning brine tank?

[mike2222]

I disconnected the line at the brine tank safety valve. I removed the float and valve and proceeded to clean the tank. Put it back together and put it thru a regen. I noticed some air bubbles in the clear 3/8 tubing when the dial was in "brine".

Did I make a mistake? Is air supposed to be bled from the brine line since I opened it up?

 

[ditttohead]

Run the system through a regeneration, check carefully for air leaks, all should be fine.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[mike2222]

Thanks, im sure I put the fittings back together securely. Its just that I saw bubbles in the 3/8 tubing.

I assume since I opened up the line I did introduce air... does it just get purged once water is being used after a regen?

 

[Bannerman]

After cleaning the brine tank, water will have needed to be manually added back into the brine tank so as to prepare brine for the regeneration to follow.

During Brine Draw, the brine within the brine tank will be drawn into the media tank. That suction will also draw in any air from within the brine line. Once the brine amount has lowered in the brine tank, the air check valve at the bottom of the brine tank will close to prevent air from being continually drawn into the media tank during the time remaining on the Brine Draw cycle.

During the Brine Fill segment at the end of the regeneration cycle, water will reenter the brine tank through the brine line to prepare brine for the subsequent future regen cycle. The brine tube will continue to be filled with water until the following regeneration cycle.

 

[mike2222]

Thx, after cleaning, i did refill with 5 gallons of water before adding fresh salt.

I saw the bubbles during the first brine draw. I did not see it during brine refill. Since the tube will now stay full until next regen, then on the next regen i shouldnt see any bubbles during the brine draw?

What happens to that air then from the first beine draw? I assume it gets bled at a fixture.

 

[Reach4]

What happens to that air then from the first beine draw? I assume it gets bled at a fixture.

Down the softener drain line, probably.

 

[ditttohead]

Correct, the air will typically stay at the top of the tank, it then gets purged to drain during backwash.

 

[mike2222]

After putting it theu a regen cycle i noticed the water level in brine tank is higher than usual. I remade the connections that i took apart on the safety valve and i think all is tight. I noticed that during brine draw/rinse its having trouble pulling water. There is trapped air in the line. The higher water level occurs then after if refills at the end. I dont think the water level touches the float but its certainly higher than usual.

Thats why i was asking about connections, thinking i had a leak but everything seems tight.


Im stumped now.

 

[Reach4]

After putting it theu a regen cycle i noticed the water level in brine tank is higher than usual. I remade the connections that i took apart on the safety valve and i think all is tight. I noticed that during brine draw/rinse its having trouble pulling water. There is trapped air in the line. The higher water level occurs then after if refills at the end. I dont think the water level touches the float but its certainly higher than usual.

Thats why i was asking about connections, thinking i had a leak but everything seems tight.

A leak in the line or connection can cause you to suck in air and not suck only brine. By around 15 minutes into the BD cycle, the brine should be sucked down to about the middle of the air check valve. There is a connection (maybe push-to-connect) at the float valve, and there is a connection at the valve. If at the float valve, you could see air bubbles through the translucent line. Slathering suspected areas with shaving cream foam can locate vacuum leaks. If the foam sucks in during BD, you found the leak.

 

[mike2222]

as i troubleshoot, can i manually put dial to brine rinse immediately and then advance it to brine fill without going thru the other cycles?

It seems like it would take some force to move the dial so i wanted to assure i dont break something.

 

[Reach4]

as i troubleshoot, can i manually put dial to brine rinse immediately and then advance it to brine fill without going thru the other cycles?

It seems like it would take some force to move the dial so i wanted to assure i dont break something.

I infer you have an electomechanical 5600 valve. The FLECK 5600 Service Manual says

2. The various regeneration positions may be dialed
manually by turning the knob on the front of the control
until the indicator shows that the softener is in the desired
position.​

 

[mike2222]

Thanks.

Once the brine fill completes and the softener goes to 'in service' could the water level still rise in the tank?

 

[Bannerman]

Brine Fill is timed and the fill rate is controlled by the BLFC flow restrictor so the amount of fill will be consistent. The float and valve within the brine tank are for safety as they are intended to prevent the brine tank from overflowing if there should be a malfunction or power loss during brine fill.

When there is a greater amount of salt in the tank, the top of the fluid will be pushed up higher as the solid salt will displace fluid.

At the rear of the 5600 will be the salt setting pointer. To view the setting, a rear cover may need to be removed.

What is the salt setting?

 

[mike2222]

I dont have the salt setting off hand but its been working at that setting for 8 years so its set correctly.

So to confirm, once it goes to in service, its not possible for it to continue to fill?

At this point, after redoing my connections and put it thru a regen it seems to be ok, likely 6" or more below float. So it was either my connection or its intermittent. Either way, i dont want to wake up to a flooded basement.

 

[Bannerman]

once it goes to in service, its not possible for it to continue to fill?

Of course, it's possible for a malfunction to occur. In that instance or the event of a power loss during Brine Fill, the safety valve and float will act to stop incoming flow once the water level rises to cause the safety float to become lifted.

its been working at that setting for 8 years so its set correctly.

I requested the salt setting to know the amount of water that should enter your brine tank during Brine Fill. Every gallon will cause 3 lbs salt to be dissolved so if the current salt setting is 9 lbs, then 3 gallons should enter. If 12 lbs, then 4 gallons etc.

The chart linked below will provide an estimation to the number of inches of brine that salt setting will equate to depending on the dimensions for your brine tank and whether it is equipped with a brine/salt grid or not. Applicable info is shown in the 'Lbs as Brine Per Inch' or 'Lbs as Brine Per Inch/Grid' column.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/132

 

[mike2222]

I just wanted to say thanks for the great information in this thread and all the other similar threads you guys have responded too. I have some understanding on how it works now.

After I remade the brine line connection at the safety valve last night I have run it thru 2 regens and both times the water level after appears correct. The next few times it needs to regen I think I will do it manually during the day so I can keep my eye on it. Hopefully its not an intermittent problem.


btw: when I installed it 7 years ago i noted the salt setting I used, I forgot how I came to this conclusion:

18x33 round brine with grid
capacity at 34000 for 2 people
(salt 12 lb (8lb x 1.5cf resin=12lb)
34000/4200=8 - reserve = 7 days between regen
7x120 =840 gallons

 

[Bannerman]

You haven't stated the amount of hardness in the water. For the example below, I assumed 20 grains per gallon.

12 lbs salt will regenerate 36,000 grains capacity in 1.5 ft3 resin. (36,000 / 20 gpg hardness = 1,800 gallons Capacity)
2 ppl estimated to each use 60 gallons/day X 20 gpg = 2,400 grains per day
36,000 / 2,400 = 15 days - 2,400 grains (120 gallons) reserve = 14 days estimated between regeneration cycles

 

[mike2222]

I believe when I set the softener like that 7 years ago the hardness was between 34-38 and that has not changed in my area. I check that i have soft water about twice a year with hach test kit.

 

[Bannerman]

When hardness is excessive, the hardness setting should be programmed higher to compensate for additional capacity that will be used.

This chart specifies a hardness multiplication factor:
Compensated Water Hardness
Multiplication factor:
1 - 20 gpg - 1.1
21 - 40 gpg - 1.2
41 - 70 gpg - 1.3
71 - 100 gpg - 1.4
100+ gpg - 1.5

With your 38 gpg actual hardness, assuming there is no iron or manganese, your hardness setting should be rightly 45.6 gpg (38 X 1.2)

36,000 gr / 46 gpg (rounded) = 782 gallons - 120 gallons reserve = 662 gallons per cycle.

 

[mike2222]

How many lbs of salt per regen and how long interval between regens does that equate to?