faulty heating pump question

[lakawak]

I don't know if this is really the place to ask this question, but I am getting desperate...

I live in an apartment building run by people who do the bare minimum, only when forced to by Code Enforcement. This winter, the pump for the hot water heating system has been making a significant hum. It is vibrating the pipes, which appear to my untrained eye to basically be transmitting that vibration/hum into the walls and into apartments 50 feet away. While the noise at the pump itself it not that loud, it is about the same volume in my apartment. From what I can see, the pipes are so tightly wedged into holes in the wall that those vibrations are also being transmitted into the walls, causing my walls to become giant speakers.

I am looking for any ammunition I can use to get my landlord to fix it, as I have called 3 times, and even gotten Code Enforcement on them, and they say that the noise is normal. AS if all buildings make a humming noise due to the heating pumps. (Funny, because I have lived in the building for years and it never made that noise before.) But the maintenance guy is the quintessential "handy man" who is not an expert on anything, and certainly not plumbing. He claimed the noise was just water running through the pipes, even though it is very clearly a mechanical hum.

As you can see, the pump is very old and basically one big pile of rust. I would imagine that buying a new pump for a little over $100 would save them far more than that with better efficiency. (My apartment also does not get to the state required 68 degrees, perhaps because the pump cannot pump the water fast enough to reach my apartment at the end of the line before it loses too much of its heat.)

http://imgur.com/r3Z8tmg
http://imgur.com/VSeiNsx


Again, I am looking for some expert information to take to them, or to the Code Enforcement to get this fixed. My neighbor is a woman in her early 80s and she is being forced to use her electric oven for heat, leaving it on all day with the over door open, as well as sleeping in her living room because the noise is SLIGHTLY less here since her bedroom is right over the furnace room. And when I told them that our apartments never got about 64 degrees, and often hovered around 62 or so, I was told "So, you ARE getting heat...just not what you WANT to get." which is ridiculous since by law it must be 68. My neighbor is a woman in her early 80s and she is being forced to use her electric oven for heat, leaving it on all day with the over door open, as well as sleeping in her living room because the noise is SLIGHTLY less here since her bedroom is right over the furnace room. To me, this should make the landlords eligible for criminal charges.

Here are some videos of the noise. The first inside the furnace room itself, and the second in the stairwell of one of the buildings it handles. This stairwell is about 20 feet away, and two walls away from the furnace. And yes, that IS an apartment to the right. No one is living in it now, and I am guessing that they would never be able to get anyone to rent it in the winter.

http://youtu.be/ZrkjiOznxiQ
http://youtu.be/lt4aqeniv6U


The even more telling thing about this noise is that when I am standing in my apartment, the noise will be VERY localized, though in many spots. By that I mean, I can stand in one spot and the noise will be very loud. But if I move just 2 feet to either direction, it goes away COMPLETELY. OR if I get lower to the ground it might go away. One spot where it is the loudest, my wall is very warm, so obviously the pipes are very close to the wall there. It is even to the point where I can change (slightly) where I hear the noise by wedging a tennis ball between the two pipes that the noise is coming from. I assume that is because I am changing the frequency and wavelength of the vibration and therefore its peaks are at different spots on the pipe.

I am just looking for some verification that this pipe is obviously causing the noise and vibration. I know it sounds stupid, but even after being shown where the noise is the worst, management and maintenance say it is normal. My other fear is that the pump is all set to fail and that it will do so during one of these cold snaps we have had this year. And with my landlord, it would take days to get the heat back on.

 

[lakawak]

I should point out that the pipes that are transmitting the noise are actually coming from the smaller diameter pipes, which I believe are the intake pipes, correct? The larger ones do appear to vibrate slightly, but their added mass can disperse it better. But with the smaller pipes, they keep the vibration, and also deliver it to the wall since they are not isolated in any way from the concrete walls. So my walls become one giant speaker.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

1st off the noise is most likely a coupling that needs to be replaced but it could be the bearing assembly as well. 2nd, I doubt that code enforcement will get involved over a noise. I don't believe there are any statutes that say the heating system has to meet specific noise requirements. That noisy circulator could function for many more months or even years before the coupling or bearing assembly actually quit altogether. Why your 80 year old neighbor is using her stove should have nothing to do with the noise either way. Also, I can'r recall anything that says the landlord has to maintain 68 degrees. In short I doubt you have any legal recourse here at all. Your best bet is to pack up and find an apartment building with a landlord that isn't a cheap prick.

 

[Dj2]

Are you so mad and can't take it anymore? move out. OR...
Buy the landlord out: buy the building from him, then you can fix everything that's wrong in it.

 

[lakawak]

Also, I can'r recall anything that says the landlord has to maintain 68 degrees. In short I doubt you have any legal recourse here at all. Your best bet is to pack up and find an apartment building with a landlord that isn't a cheap prick.

Oh...the law absolutely says that the apartments must be 68 degrees. I don't know if that is true of all states, but the NY State Renter Law is pretty clear on that. And I have seen many other states that have the same law. Between midnight and 6:00 AM or so, it can drop to 60 or something like that. But during the day, it must be at least 68.


But am I right in that it is NOT normal for the pipes to be making a constant hum that is audible in an apartment that is 50+ feet away, 1 floor up and 2 rooms removed from the furnace room? The maintenance guy told me again today that it is normal, and I am imagining things when I say that it is something I never hear in previous years. Or that other apartments buildings with the same heating set-up don't make that noise. He again told me that "when water runs through pipes, it makes a noise." and that that is what I am hearing.

I just wish I could get someone to tell them that it is likely the coupling. I mean...this is a building with 21 apartments...bringing in over $11,000 a month in rent. And they are using a pump that is so rusty that it is literally falling apart. There is a bolt that is doing nothing because the metal around the bolt hole has rusted away and broken off. So there is nothing for hte bolt to bolt TO anymore. And the floor under it is full of little rust flakes that I assume fall off due to the normal vibration of the pump. IT is just that that vibration should be somehow isolated from the pipes that go into the apartments.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ehhh, that circulator has some surface rust but then again, most of them lookk like that within a couple of years. I can't determine its actual age but the big commercial ones like that are pretty rugged and there is no way I would advise anyone to change it. Maybe oil it and replace the coupling but I'd bet thats about all. Sure it hums, its big, has a big motor on it. You are either going to have to live with it or find another apartment building. As for the 68 thing. In this weather 68 might be hard to maintain and i'd bet any complaints to the city will fall on deaf ears.

 

[DonL]

Unless you PAY for hotwater, You may not have much of a case.

Most Apartments that have systems like that provide heat, at no additional Heated water cost. Here in Texas anyway.

The noise could be from your Blower Motor, and you could be barking up the wrong Tree.


If you live in a apartment, you need to expect noise. I may be wrong.


Good Luck.

 

[lakawak]

Ehhh, that circulator has some surface rust but then again, most of them lookk like that within a couple of years. I can't determine its actual age but the big commercial ones like that are pretty rugged and there is no way I would advise anyone to change it. Maybe oil it and replace the coupling but I'd bet thats about all. Sure it hums, its big, has a big motor on it. You are either going to have to live with it or find another apartment building. As for the 68 thing. In this weather 68 might be hard to maintain and i'd bet any complaints to the city will fall on deaf ears.

Well...I got the heat turned up. Code Enforcement called the landlord right away to remind them of the law and possible fines. And they are coming next week to re-check on the noise. I had a Code guy come out a couple weeks ago and he listed the noisy pump in his report and they were supposed to repair it within a week. When I called them again and told them what the maintenance guy said about it being just water noise, he got out the report to see what it said and said he would send someone back next week. (There were also several other things like holes leading from the furnace rooms right up to access panels in apartments, with no fire stop, and they haven't fixed that so they are about to get hit pretty hard by fines if they don't fix it by next week.) The Code guy was saying that it is kinda dumb to let a fairly simple fix like a broken coupler go since it could hurt the pump itself. And based on how much louder it has gotten since just December, I would guess that if it is the coupler, that it is going downhill fast. It is at least twice as loud as it was just 6 weeks ago, and I found video evidence that the maintenance guy is wrong when he says that the noise was always like that. I had a video taken in the laundry room adjacent to the furnace from last year with no noise. And a video taken in the same place now is defeaning. You can heat it over the sound of the washer's spin cycle.

The thing that is going to hurt the landlord about the noise is that the manager acknowledged it is a problem. But her "solution" was "Just turn a fan on to drown out the noise." which, since they are supposed to be providing the heat, was not an acceptable solution according to the Code official. Especially when it was too cold in the apartment to begin with.


To be honest, my post was really mostly asking about if the noise in the video really does sound like a faulty pump, or even cheaper, just the coupler, which from what I can see would be $25 or less to fix. That is less than 0.2% of what they take in in rent every month from the apartments that the pump handles. And less than what they have saved so far by no longer plowing our parking lot or even clearing the sidewalks after snowstorms. They'd rather risk thousand of dollars in lawsuits than pay someone $50 to plow, even though they have their own plow

Based on the video in my OP, how likely is it that that noise is caused by the coupler? I'm sure pumps make some noise all the time. But most buildings don't have the pipes laid out so poorly that they transmit that noise and vibration into the walls. the amazing thing is, before the maintenance guy "fixed" the problem on Monday, the noise was very focused. You could literally stand in one spot and the noise would be very loud. But if you took just one half step over, it would be completely silent. And in some spots, it you stand up and therefore you ears about 6 feet off the ground, you hear nothing. But if you sit down and now are like 3-4 feet off the ground, it is loud. It is still sort of like this, but since it is overall much louder, those spots of silence are now spots of lesser noise and the previous bad spots are spots are extremely loud noise. So loud that people have asked me what the humming was when I talked to them on the phone.

And even more telling is that if I wedge some tennis balls in between the two pipes that are humming, I can actually slightly alter where the loud and quiet spots are. Because by adding some tension to the pipes, I am changing the frequency and wavelength of the vibration. So the peaks of the wave are now in different spots.Before he supposedly "fixed" the problem, I had gotten it to the point where where I normally sit on my couch was in a fairly quiet zone. But now, nothing I can do will get it out of a loud zone. And my living room is so horribly sectioned off with a way too big coat closet diving the living room in half, there really is no other way to arrange the furniture. There is one other way that might be OK, but in that configuration, the couch would be in another loud zone.

It is not as easy as just moving out. I have a lease that unfortunately started just before the heat was turned on so I had no reason to think there would be a problem. (Since there was none in previous years.) And my city has become such a drug/crime area, you never know what you are getting into if you move. As it is now,the people in my building are OK. No drugs, other than the occasional slight marijuana smell.