We just went through a major master bathroom remodel where we completely gutted the old bathroom and went through the concrete to re-route all of the plumbing to change the location of everything and install new vents, etc.
The contractor we hired did all of the plumbing himself and didn’t hire a master plumber. He also didn’t apply for a permit so nothing was inspected by the city. (Believe me, I’ve learned my lesson!).
Below is a list of the problems we’ve encountered so far. I know this is a long read, but I need help.
7-20-09: He eliminated our main line clean-out for the back of the house: After demo, our contractor pointed to a large gray pipe in the ground that ran from our old toilet to a big stack on the exterior wall of the house which went all the way through the roof. He pointed to it and said, “Look at what we found…I have no idea what this is. I told you we were going to find surprises here.†By “surprises†I had a feeling he was trying to get more money out of me for the extra work he and his crew were going to have to do to address this so-called problem. He told me that after he installs the new pipe for the new toilet and connects the new toilet line to the old main line, he was going to “cap-off†that gray pipe in the ground and leave that pipe along with the big vent stack it was attached to dead in the ground and in the wall. I found out later that that was our main clean out for the back of the house and we would need it for the sewage back-up we were going to encounter soon…
8-15-09: Sewage backup starting in the guest bathroom and extending to masterbath:
Well, fast forward several weeks to when all the plumbing is installed the concrete has been poured and the walls are up and they’re working on the finish-out. During the entire remodel, my husband and I were living in the guest bedroom and bathroom on the other side of the house. One day, the water stopped draining in that guest bathroom shower, then the toilet wouldn’t flush and then later that night we noticed that everytime we ran the water or flushed a toilet, sewage starting coming up through the drain in the guest bathroom shower. I then noticed that sewage was also coming up in the newly installed master bathroom shower and bathtub (we also have a third bathroom for the kids on the same side of the house as the master and it was fine).
Roto Rooter came and wanted to run the auger from the main line cleanout in the back to the one in the front. When the guy went to the back of the house and pulled the main line cap that was sticking out from the exterior wall, he found nothing. He said (or yelled, rather), “There’s nothing here! Where’s your main line clean-out?†That’s when I realized that that was the exact spot where that big gray stack was on the other side of the wall which was inside our master bathroom…the one the contractor called a “surpriseâ€.
Roto Rooter ran their lines through the vent stacks on the guest bathroom side and he was able to clear the line of whatever was causing the blockage and everything appeared to working fine after that. Of course, even though this problem appeared in the guest bathroom on the other side of the house from the master, I couldn’t help but wonder if it was connected to the plumbing in the master; especially since the master experienced the sewage back-up as well.
After the sewage issue, we called our contractor to come in and assess the situation and tell him to install a new main line clean-out. I won’t get into how that conversation went down, but let’s just say it wasn’t pretty. Luckily the new master toilet was installed on the same exterior wall as the old main line cleanout so he was able to run a pipe from the new toilet through the outside wall and now we have a new main line clean-out for the back of the house which is connected directly to the toilet.
8-18-09: He blamed our shower faucet for the fact that when we turn the shower on, hot water comes out first: During the main line clean-out issue, he showed me how our single handle pressure balance shower handle opens up with hot water coming out first and then as the handle is turned, the cold water comes out. He said in all his years of plumbing he had never seen anything like it and insisted that it was because I bought some kind of European brand faucet with a new fangled design. The brand I bought was “American Standardâ€â€¦as the name implies, it’s American and its design is “standardâ€.
Because of the clean-out issue, I had already arranged to bring in another plumber to inspect the work done thus far (of course, most of the work was already buried under concrete and tiled over) and since this new plumber was coming to the house anyway I asked that he also look at our “hot water first†shower faucet. He took one look and said that the converter was on backwards. He was right and despite my contractor’s protests otherwise and claims of manufacturer defects, etc. he finally took the converter off, turned it around and put it on the right way. If the other plumber hadn’t been there, I think he was planning on sticking with his story that it was the product…and not his own incompetence…that was causing the problem.
8-20-09: Kid’s bathroom toilet won’t flush: Roto rooter came out again under warranty to find out why the kid’s bathroom toilet (this is the toilet on the same side of the house as the master bathroom) wouldn’t flush. This time they used the clean-outs on the front of the house which is where this toilet is located and he said that he found a blockage in the front yard. The Roto Rooter guy said he wasn’t sure what the blockage was, but that he was able to clean it out. After that we were able to use the kids’ bathroom without any problems.
9-1-09: Double sinks drain but only after filling up with water: We officially move into our newly remodeled master bathroom. There were a couple things I noticed, but I wasn’t sure if they were a big deal…first, the double sinks wouldn’t drain as the water was coming out of the faucet. The water would fill all the way up to the top of the bowl and while it was filling up little bubbles would come out from the drain, then all of a sudden, right before the water would get to the top of the sink bowl, all the water would be sucked down in a matter of seconds. Then, as soon as all that water drained, it would start to fill up again. As long as we kept the sink faucet running, this process would repeat.
I also noticed that the back of the toilet (we have a Toto Eco-Drake) was sitting at least ½ to ¾ inches off the tiled floor. They used wood shims to keep it that way and the gap is way too big for caulking.
9-22-09: Plumbing in the master bathroom stops up and nothing drains: As I was taking a shower the water in the shower started pooling and not draining. When I got out, I noticed that the tub was also filling up with water that was coming up from the drain. Then the toilet wouldn’t flush. I talked to my contractor and of course he was convinced that it was one of my kids. He said they probably put something down a drain. I told him that all the other plumbing in the house seemed to be working fine. He then said that there was definitely a blockage and that it was probably between the master bathroom and the kids bathroom and that I needed to call Roto Rooter since they “apparently†never fixed the problem from before.
Roto Rooter came out under our warranty and ran the auger from the back of the house where the new main line clean out was installed to the front of the house (connects to the kids’ toilet) and found nothing. The whole time he ran the line we had the tub filled up with water and it stayed that way. He said that the only thing he found were some feminine products that were stuck on the auger line, but other than that there was no blockage.
I then called my contractor who had his guys come out to the house. They ran their own auger and called me out to show me all the “paper and debris†that they said were coming out on the line proving that they had found the blockage. I explained that these were the same feminine products that the Roto Rooter guy found and that his opinion was that this was not the blockage. The firmly believed that it was these few feminine products that they pulled out on the line that caused the blockage and that as soon as they were done and pulled the line in then all the water would drain from the tub and the water would also start draining in the sinks rather than draining on a delay after filling up with water.
Well, the water in the tub did drain, but the problem was still there with the two sinks. Then they said that it must be the cord (or aerator?) that connects to the sink drain, because when they fiddled with it on one of the sinks, it seemed to drain, but when they fiddled with it on the other sink, it didn’t drain. Then they said that it must be the pipe fitting but after they came back from Home Depot with the new pipe fitting and installed it and other sink still didn’t drain they said that it was the float. But when I asked them why it was the float when the sink DOES in fact drain just fine and quickly after it fills all the way up with water…the response was….â€The faucet must have a manufacturer’s defectâ€.
Is there anyone out there who can diagnose what’s going on with our plumbing? Could all of these problems be related starting with the first back-up in the guest bathroom? Could faulty plumbing in the master cause problems in the rest of the house? Any thoughts?
The contractor we hired did all of the plumbing himself and didn’t hire a master plumber. He also didn’t apply for a permit so nothing was inspected by the city. (Believe me, I’ve learned my lesson!).
Below is a list of the problems we’ve encountered so far. I know this is a long read, but I need help.
7-20-09: He eliminated our main line clean-out for the back of the house: After demo, our contractor pointed to a large gray pipe in the ground that ran from our old toilet to a big stack on the exterior wall of the house which went all the way through the roof. He pointed to it and said, “Look at what we found…I have no idea what this is. I told you we were going to find surprises here.†By “surprises†I had a feeling he was trying to get more money out of me for the extra work he and his crew were going to have to do to address this so-called problem. He told me that after he installs the new pipe for the new toilet and connects the new toilet line to the old main line, he was going to “cap-off†that gray pipe in the ground and leave that pipe along with the big vent stack it was attached to dead in the ground and in the wall. I found out later that that was our main clean out for the back of the house and we would need it for the sewage back-up we were going to encounter soon…
8-15-09: Sewage backup starting in the guest bathroom and extending to masterbath:
Well, fast forward several weeks to when all the plumbing is installed the concrete has been poured and the walls are up and they’re working on the finish-out. During the entire remodel, my husband and I were living in the guest bedroom and bathroom on the other side of the house. One day, the water stopped draining in that guest bathroom shower, then the toilet wouldn’t flush and then later that night we noticed that everytime we ran the water or flushed a toilet, sewage starting coming up through the drain in the guest bathroom shower. I then noticed that sewage was also coming up in the newly installed master bathroom shower and bathtub (we also have a third bathroom for the kids on the same side of the house as the master and it was fine).
Roto Rooter came and wanted to run the auger from the main line cleanout in the back to the one in the front. When the guy went to the back of the house and pulled the main line cap that was sticking out from the exterior wall, he found nothing. He said (or yelled, rather), “There’s nothing here! Where’s your main line clean-out?†That’s when I realized that that was the exact spot where that big gray stack was on the other side of the wall which was inside our master bathroom…the one the contractor called a “surpriseâ€.
Roto Rooter ran their lines through the vent stacks on the guest bathroom side and he was able to clear the line of whatever was causing the blockage and everything appeared to working fine after that. Of course, even though this problem appeared in the guest bathroom on the other side of the house from the master, I couldn’t help but wonder if it was connected to the plumbing in the master; especially since the master experienced the sewage back-up as well.
After the sewage issue, we called our contractor to come in and assess the situation and tell him to install a new main line clean-out. I won’t get into how that conversation went down, but let’s just say it wasn’t pretty. Luckily the new master toilet was installed on the same exterior wall as the old main line cleanout so he was able to run a pipe from the new toilet through the outside wall and now we have a new main line clean-out for the back of the house which is connected directly to the toilet.
8-18-09: He blamed our shower faucet for the fact that when we turn the shower on, hot water comes out first: During the main line clean-out issue, he showed me how our single handle pressure balance shower handle opens up with hot water coming out first and then as the handle is turned, the cold water comes out. He said in all his years of plumbing he had never seen anything like it and insisted that it was because I bought some kind of European brand faucet with a new fangled design. The brand I bought was “American Standardâ€â€¦as the name implies, it’s American and its design is “standardâ€.
Because of the clean-out issue, I had already arranged to bring in another plumber to inspect the work done thus far (of course, most of the work was already buried under concrete and tiled over) and since this new plumber was coming to the house anyway I asked that he also look at our “hot water first†shower faucet. He took one look and said that the converter was on backwards. He was right and despite my contractor’s protests otherwise and claims of manufacturer defects, etc. he finally took the converter off, turned it around and put it on the right way. If the other plumber hadn’t been there, I think he was planning on sticking with his story that it was the product…and not his own incompetence…that was causing the problem.
8-20-09: Kid’s bathroom toilet won’t flush: Roto rooter came out again under warranty to find out why the kid’s bathroom toilet (this is the toilet on the same side of the house as the master bathroom) wouldn’t flush. This time they used the clean-outs on the front of the house which is where this toilet is located and he said that he found a blockage in the front yard. The Roto Rooter guy said he wasn’t sure what the blockage was, but that he was able to clean it out. After that we were able to use the kids’ bathroom without any problems.
9-1-09: Double sinks drain but only after filling up with water: We officially move into our newly remodeled master bathroom. There were a couple things I noticed, but I wasn’t sure if they were a big deal…first, the double sinks wouldn’t drain as the water was coming out of the faucet. The water would fill all the way up to the top of the bowl and while it was filling up little bubbles would come out from the drain, then all of a sudden, right before the water would get to the top of the sink bowl, all the water would be sucked down in a matter of seconds. Then, as soon as all that water drained, it would start to fill up again. As long as we kept the sink faucet running, this process would repeat.
I also noticed that the back of the toilet (we have a Toto Eco-Drake) was sitting at least ½ to ¾ inches off the tiled floor. They used wood shims to keep it that way and the gap is way too big for caulking.
9-22-09: Plumbing in the master bathroom stops up and nothing drains: As I was taking a shower the water in the shower started pooling and not draining. When I got out, I noticed that the tub was also filling up with water that was coming up from the drain. Then the toilet wouldn’t flush. I talked to my contractor and of course he was convinced that it was one of my kids. He said they probably put something down a drain. I told him that all the other plumbing in the house seemed to be working fine. He then said that there was definitely a blockage and that it was probably between the master bathroom and the kids bathroom and that I needed to call Roto Rooter since they “apparently†never fixed the problem from before.
Roto Rooter came out under our warranty and ran the auger from the back of the house where the new main line clean out was installed to the front of the house (connects to the kids’ toilet) and found nothing. The whole time he ran the line we had the tub filled up with water and it stayed that way. He said that the only thing he found were some feminine products that were stuck on the auger line, but other than that there was no blockage.
I then called my contractor who had his guys come out to the house. They ran their own auger and called me out to show me all the “paper and debris†that they said were coming out on the line proving that they had found the blockage. I explained that these were the same feminine products that the Roto Rooter guy found and that his opinion was that this was not the blockage. The firmly believed that it was these few feminine products that they pulled out on the line that caused the blockage and that as soon as they were done and pulled the line in then all the water would drain from the tub and the water would also start draining in the sinks rather than draining on a delay after filling up with water.
Well, the water in the tub did drain, but the problem was still there with the two sinks. Then they said that it must be the cord (or aerator?) that connects to the sink drain, because when they fiddled with it on one of the sinks, it seemed to drain, but when they fiddled with it on the other sink, it didn’t drain. Then they said that it must be the pipe fitting but after they came back from Home Depot with the new pipe fitting and installed it and other sink still didn’t drain they said that it was the float. But when I asked them why it was the float when the sink DOES in fact drain just fine and quickly after it fills all the way up with water…the response was….â€The faucet must have a manufacturer’s defectâ€.
Is there anyone out there who can diagnose what’s going on with our plumbing? Could all of these problems be related starting with the first back-up in the guest bathroom? Could faulty plumbing in the master cause problems in the rest of the house? Any thoughts?
