Bubbling toilet in mid level powder room

[Jason Davis]

Summary of the problem: I have a bubbling toilet in the mid-level commode, seen in the blue cloud on the attachment, yet things are draining fine in the entire house.
For reference I have attached a plumbing line drawing for reference. I didn't get too detailed into the line drawing because (a) I can't see behind the walls and (b) you can probably figure it out quicker than I can draw it.

History:

• I've been 3 years in a 6 year-old Ryan Homes mid-unit 3-level townhome with a hung sewer in the walkout basement.
• A few weeks after I moved in I noticed that while the washing machine (level 2) was draining, the powder room commode (level 1, directly under laundry) would bubble pretty violently. It was occasional and not frequent so I kind of ignored it.
• A few months later, I had a backup in the level 1 powder and level 1 kitchen as I was doing 2nd floor laundry and as my daughter was taking a shower at the same time in the 2nd floor hall bath. It was saturday night and not going away so I called RotoRooter. They snaked the main from the cleanout just outside the foundation wall outward to the main. He claimed he couldn't get into the home because of the config of the pipes. He said he hit some resistance between house and sewer main but not much of an obstruction (so little that he didn't even charge me), and the clog was gone and the drains were clear from then until now (2+ years later with no issues).
• The powder room commode still bubbled occasionally when doing a washing machine load above, occasionally, for months, but again not persistent or causing any problems so it went under the radar.
• Under advisement of a local plumber I tried to test the openness of the vent on that side. It's a 3rd level townhome roof so I couldn't snake from above without hassle. All I had access to directly was the attic, so I cut that vent line open and stuck a blower in the roof side and a vacuum in the house side, and got nothing. I sealed up the connection. Occasionally the powder still burped in laundry use.
• Recently I finished the basement bathroom and added a bsmt wet bar sink. This is all on that same stack that I was having trouble with. The basement bathroom group was already installed before I moved in, including the ejector pit. There was also an ejector-dedicated vent line and ejector-dedicated waste line, stubbed directly above the ejector crock but not originally connected, running out to the main house sewer line. When I installed the basement bathroom and sink I also connected the ejector waste line and ejector vent line, as well as the vent line for the basement lav and kitchenette sink to the same vent as the ejector vent that was already installed.
• The basement bathroom now gets a lot of use, and I've noticed that whenever the ejector pump cycles the same powder room commode (on main level 1, same stack as the other trouble plumbing, and same as above issue before this bathroom was installed) will burp and bubble when the ejector pit discharges.
• The problem is all in the blue-clouded stack in the attached drawing. And I apologize for the crudeness of the drawing!

So far, everything I see is that the other RED stack of the home drains fine with not a single issue ever, but this one BLUE stack of the house causes a gurgling level 1 toilet when the level 2 laundry drains and also when the level 0 basement bathroom drains. No other backups. This happened before and after the basement fixtures were added without change.

 

[Reach4]

A few months later, I had a backup in the level 1 powder and level 1 kitchen as I was doing 2nd floor laundry and as my daughter was taking a shower at the same time in the 2nd floor hall bath.

Tell us about those backups. Did water overflow the rim of the powder room toilet?
What were the backup signs in the level 1 kitchen? How high, and how long?

Is there no cleanout for the right side of the "hung sewer". Incidentally, that system is usually called an overhead sewer.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jason Davis]

Tell us about those backups. Did water overflow the rim of the powder room toilet?
What were the backup signs in the level 1 kitchen? How high, and how long?

Is there no cleanout for the right side of the "hung sewer". Incidentally, that system is usually called an overhead sewer.

thanks for reply!

When I had the backup, the toilet did not overflow but got close. If I recall, the water didn't rise in the toilet from below, it was just from the attempts to flush it and water from the tank, but I could be wrong. The pedestal sink and the kitchen sink on same level did start to fill from the drain, a few inches but that's it. At the time, those 3 fixtures were the lowest in the home. Those backups drained away slowly after maybe 10 minutes or so after I made my daughter turn off the shower. I ran the sink faucets again when RotoRooter showed up, and water filled up again. Like I said, he ran the snake through and couldn't find an actual stoppage so he suggested it may have just been something temporary. He didn't even charge me for the trip since he said he didn't "fix anything". Now that I think about it again yes he did snake it from the cleanout inside the basement too, and didn't have any issues. Since he didn't find a clog he didn't camera anything.
Also of note, there's no trees in the yard so unlikely roots in the pipe causing a temporary stoppage.

 

[Reach4]

Like I said, he ran the snake through and couldn't find an actual stoppage so he suggested it may have just been something temporary.

At least he used the cleaning machine, rather than trying to upsell you. I think that franchises vary by location. Yours sounds much better than the median. Usually I would be looking for an independent who has been around for a good while.

Pulling the powder room toilet, and rodding to the street would have been a good move. If that does not go, camera work

Show us a photo of the upstream end (farthest from the street) of that "hung sewer".

 

[Jason Davis]

Pulling the powder room toilet, and rodding to the street would have been a good move. If that does not go, camera work

Show us a photo of the upstream end (farthest from the street) of that "hung sewer".

There's nothing to see in a pic. The basement is finished so all you'd see is a small access panel and the cleanout Tee in the horizontal pipe.

You've never heard it called a hung sewer? I've been in construction 20 years and never heard it called an "overhead" sewer. Maybe it's regional.

 

[Reach4]

There's nothing to see in a pic. The basement is finished so all you'd see is a small access panel and the cleanout Tee in the horizontal pipe.

The cleanout tee was what I was mainly curious about. If that could be used, that would be an alternative to having the drain cleaner from having to pull the toilet to run the big cutter into. While you could rent the big machine, the danger of you getting injured is not worth it. Lay a plastic sheet under the cleanout before the rodding/cleaning.

Your event where the kitchen and powder room were affected seem definitive in identifying a blockage downstream of the kitchen drain connection into the big hung sewer pipe.

You've never heard it called a hung sewer? I've been in construction 20 years and never heard it called an "overhead" sewer. Maybe it's regional.

Regional sounds right.
Google:
"overhead sewer" About 338,000 results
"hung sewer" About 9,170 results

Whatever you call it, it the best way to prevent sewer backup.

 

[Jason Davis]

Your event where the kitchen and powder room were affected seem definitive in identifying a blockage downstream of the kitchen drain connection into the big hung sewer pipe.

I appreciate your quick responses but I'm still a little confused. I had a backup/stoppage once and it never happened again, never even a slow drain other than my daughter's shower (I don't know how she has any hair left). I honestly think it was due to someone sticking something down the cleanout in the yard - there was a rash of it happening in the neighborhood around that time. Your responses seem to be focusing on that.

How does that relate to the constant issue of my powder room toilet burping every time the washing machine drains or the ejector pit runs? That's what I'm asking about.

 

[Reach4]

I appreciate your quick responses but I'm still a little confused. I had a backup/stoppage once and it never happened again, never even a slow drain other than my daughter's shower (I don't know how she has any hair left). I honestly think it was due to someone sticking something down the cleanout in the yard - there was a rash of it happening in the neighborhood around that time. Your responses seem to be focusing on that.

Focusing on that, because it defines a problem that has an obvious solution.

Your other problem is harder. The sewage blockage could certainly contribute to those symptoms. In addition, I suspect your venting is inadequate in some way. Some places would want a dedicated 2 inch vent pipe to at least the attic, for the pit alone.

Your venting did not contribute to the backup.