Adding Drain for Water Softener to overhead sewer line?

[Sparegeek]

Hi all,

I've searched the forums and I haven't been able to find a solution/discussion that seems to match what I'm trying to do.

I'm looking to install a water softener in my basement and I'm trying to figure out where to plumb a drain for it.

The main sewer line exits the house about 3 .5 feet above the floor of the basement as is shown in the picture. As a result there are no floor drains to use and I need to plumb a drain somewhere.

I was thinking about adding a Wye to one of the lines coming down from the floors above and adding a stand pipe to use as the drain for the softener.

I was also wondering if I could somehow use the sink drain that is coming down from the sink that is on the floor directly above the water heater and connect the discharge into that (with an air gap of course)?

The pictures are where the main sewer line exits the house and the drain that comes down from a sink directly above.

Any suggestions?

 

[Reach4]

Alternatively, you could run the softener drain through the floor, and to a new dual-input air gap on the kitchen sink. One side is fed by the dishwasher or RO, and the other by the softener.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Sparegeek]

View attachment 51957

Alternatively, you could run the softener drain through the floor, and to a new dual-input air gap on the kitchen sink. One side is fed by the dishwasher or RO, and the other by the softener.

Thanks! I may need to go the route of the stand pipe. The pipe that goes up actually runs to a pedestal sink in the powder room so I can't add an air gap to it.

Although close to that drain is another drain that comes in from the utility sink in my garage. I've thought about running the line up through the sill plate into that sink but the garage is not heated and I'm concerned that the line might freeze once it exits the house envelope.

I have to mess with this pipe already since when the original owners added the utility sink in the garage they didn't install a Wye. They just cut a hole in that main pipe and poorly solvent welded a make shift saddle valve to the pipe. It looks like at one point it even leaked a bit and they glued some additional plastic in to plug the leak!

Is there some other way to connect into this pipe that would provide the required air-gap and be code compliant? I'm pretty sure that the original jerry-rigged connection isn't to cod. I think it's too close to the floor above so I don't think a stand pipe off of this drain would work. Are there other options, methods or fittings that would make this a better choice?

 

[Reach4]

Your photos left to right are what -- IMG_7458.jpg IMG_7459.jpg IMG_7457.jpg, or what?

Is IMG_7457.jpg over a furnace, so you could not have a drain line lower there?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would be concerned that you would be creating a new drain that is the a lowest opening in the plumbing system, so that would be the first place the sewage backs up into the house if there were ever a backup. You can pipe the indirect waste from the softener across and up to a laundry standpipe or slop sink, that would be a much better solution.

 

[Treeman]

My plumber added something similar to this on our drain line. Mine enters the drain on the side and the trap bottom is actually a bit below the drain pipe bottom. Is there enough room in the area shown in the first picture (where the water supply is) to fit this in?

 

[Reach4]

My plumber added something similar to this on our drain line. Mine enters the drain on the side and the trap bottom is actually a bit below the drain pipe bottom. Is there enough room in the area shown in the first picture (where the water supply is) to fit this in?

Is supposed to have a vent on the trap arm, but if it works without a smell getting out, good. Not in literal accordance with codes.

 

[Treeman]

Our home was built in the 50's and the drain system was redone about 30 years ago when a new septic went in. When the licensed plumber added in my softener drain 2 years ago, he stated that my vent system works, but would be done differently now-a-days. My son's home is only about 8 years old and his softener drain is installed like my picture above.

Why is this? I know codes vary between regions. Do some licensed plumbers ignore the code? Are old systems grandfathered in? It confuses a diyer like me that is OCD about doing things right.

 

[Sparegeek]

Your photos left to right are what -- IMG_7458.jpg IMG_7459.jpg IMG_7457.jpg, or what?

Is IMG_7457.jpg over a furnace, so you could not have a drain line lower there?

Okay I suck at drawing, but I tried to draw out the layout a little better.

I have pretty good access to the main sewer lines where it goes out to the city sewer and I have access to the pipes that come from the pedestal sink in the powder room and the drain from the utility sink in the un-heated garage.

Does this help show you what I'm looking at?

(Edit for better picture)

 

[Sparegeek]

I would be concerned that you would be creating a new drain that is the a lowest opening in the plumbing system, so that would be the first place the sewage backs up into the house if there were ever a backup. You can pipe the indirect waste from the softener across and up to a laundry standpipe or slop sink, that would be a much better solution.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the laundry stand pipe with out having to cut through drywall in the ceiling so that's not worth it to me. You're right though this would be the lowest point so if back ups I'm going to have a mess on the floor. However, that said, this would be the best place to have that mess since this is a utility area where the sump pump sits. It's just a concrete floor. If it were to back up right now it would back up into the powder room on the first floor which would be worse I would think! LOL

I was thinking that maybe I could put a check valve on the stand pipe to prevent it from backing up if it were to happen?

I don't want to draining directly into the sump pump since it drains out into the grass and flower bed outside and I don't want to kill them with all the salt.

 

[Reach4]

Does this help show you what I'm looking at?

Yes. I don't know how to best improve the section from pedestal sink drain.

Your composite shows that some ideas I had had would not work.

Have you thought of adding more plumbing to the basement, with a new sealed septic pit? That could take the softener and the new stuff you might add, including a new toilet. It would need a 2 inch vent to the roof and a lot of digging. It would be way overkill for this but just thought I might mention it.

Where is your washing machine? Maybe run the softener drain to there.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Another option would be to use a drain pump like the Liberty 405. No digging required, but you would need to install a vent, which you will need to do if you are going to meet code either way you do it.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Our home was built in the 50's and the drain system was redone about 30 years ago when a new septic went in. When the licensed plumber added in my softener drain 2 years ago, he stated that my vent system works, but would be done differently now-a-days. My son's home is only about 8 years old and his softener drain is installed like my picture above.

Why is this? I know codes vary between regions. Do some licensed plumbers ignore the code? Are old systems grandfathered in? It confuses a diyer like me that is OCD about doing things right.

It's a matter of doing what they think they can get away with, knowing they would not get some jobs if they were going to quote everything strictly based on the code requirements.

 

[Reach4]

Concept for softener standpipe among joists
Note needs support added, such as hanger from ceiling.

Green: 4x2x1.5 reducing wye rolled to 45 degrees
Light green, some kind of bowl such as kitchen drain
Black: softener drain, elbow on end, attach to ceiling
Darker blue and brown: 1.5 inch p-trap
Yellow: ceiling
Red: 4 inch drain line
Orange: the standpipe

A 10 inch diameter softener backwashes at 2.4 gpm and a 12 inch at 3.5 gpm. That is followed by flows at under 1 gpm typically.

Critique welcome.

Sparegeek, if you were to integrate this function into the pedestal sink drain somehow, I think you would need to be able to move the new wye farther to the left.