Very busy sump pump is flooding our yard and cycling constantly.

[Elana]

Thanks again for all your help, it is much appreciated. The downspouts all have extenders and the house is somewhat at the top of a hill, so they all slope downhill quite readily. The problem is that there is somewhat of a valley (however subtle) between my neighbor's house and mine; most of the lowest point is on their side. When my sump pump discharges, it has been going into the yard and pooling in that valley. It never has a chance to dry, being replenished every 10 minutes or less, and the soil is clay, so not great at absorbing the water. It is my hope that if my sump pump stops discharging constantly, some better equilibrium can be achieved out there. It has looked that way so far today, so for now I will try to leave the set point at 17" (~7-8" from the top) and see if this more reasonable state of affairs continues. I probably won't bother filling the holes at this time, and will just keep my fingers crossed that this fix can be so simple! Once again, I truly appreciate everyone talking me through this.

 

[Jadnashua]

Sealing holes in the basin won't do anything except possibly cause it to try to float up. If there's water there, it will flow into the basin. You don't really want to be constantly pumping it over and over again. It would probably take a permit to dump it into the storm drain. But, some places are still treating that water, so there may be a cost. If you think of it, the runoff from streets is likely to contain all sorts of chemicals from oil, antifreeze, rubber dust, brake dust, and just plain dust and debris. It may not take as much processing as a sewer, but it still costs something. You only need more holes if the water table is so high it can't flow in through the drain tiles down lower.

Clay can direct surface water that isn't necessarily related to the water table. It's likely when they backfilled around the foundation with something other than clay, so it's directing some of the water there.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gagecalman]

I think that the storm sewers and the regular sewers run together in Chicago. If you hooked up your new pump to your sewer line it would possibly, in a way, constitute a shortcut. Run the pump til the water table drops. You may be just pumping the water around in a circle as things stand. I would not consult the authorities. Or your regular plumber.

I would agree.

If you have a utility sink in the basement let it drain into it like a washing machine. That way you don't have to cut into the plumbing. You can increase the pipe to 2" to reduce the pressure so it won't splash.
Leave the pipe in the wall in case you have to reconnect it. You can use a Fernco.

I've also had my level adjusted high enough to fill the drain tubes almost to the top. About 7" below the top of my slab. Acts as a reserve. That way the pump runs for a longer cycle time but less frequent. Better for the pump.

I've had mine that way for 30 years. Just don't tell anyone and no one will know.

It may not be right but sometimes you gottta do what you gotta do.

I'd probably leave the holes alone. It relieves the water pressure from under the slab.

 

[Elana]

So far things still seem to be a lot better at the higher setting. As I said, this does require my drain pipe to be completely submerged practically all of the time, but as long as that won't cause any costly problems down the line I am happy to leave it that way. It seems like there are two schools of thought on the matter, across the internet. I'm heartened to see that you have already done 30 years of "testing."

EDITING TO ADD: A question/concern. If the drain tile is not pitched towards the sump basin in any way, is it possible the water from my sump basin can fill up the pipe and exit from wherever the "entry" is supposed to be, instead of filling the sump basin to the set point and discharging properly? I have no idea where the entry point for the drain tile is - any practical way to tell?

I have seen the sump pump trigger at least once since being set at this level above the pipe, which suggests that it should still be able to work properly, but hopefully that wasn't just a fluke.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would agree.

If you have a utility sink in the basement let it drain into it like a washing machine. I'd probably leave the holes alone. It relieves the water pressure from under the slab.

This line of thinking is causing big problems for many municipalities because when there are heavy rains the sewage treatment plant becomes deluged and then they have no choice but to dump untreated sewage right into our rivers and lakes.

Not the right answer

 

[Jadnashua]

Ground water will percolate wherever it wants, drainage pipe or not. The pipe just lets it move easier so that it isn't as likely to push up if it hits an obstruction.

 

[Elana]

Ground water will percolate wherever it wants, drainage pipe or not. The pipe just lets it move easier so that it isn't as likely to push up if it hits an obstruction.

I'm not sure if I am explaining my concern properly, but I am wondering: if I let the sump basin fill above the height of the drain tile, is it possible the groundwater entering my sump basin from the holes below will just move into the drain tile and exit somewhere it isn't supposed to? So that the sump basin never gets full enough to actually discharge unless/until wherever the drain tile leads becomes oversaturated? This is under the premise that the drain tile does not pitch towards the sump basin in any way, and water could travel just as easily into the drain tile (from the basin) as out of it (into the basin).

 

[Jadnashua]

Think of the ground underneath as a pool. Water will reach a certain level and stop. Get a big rain storm, and you could overflow that pool. The pipe just helps relieve some of the pressure, helping to prevent the pressure rising enough to force its way through your slab versus running into the pit so you can relocate it. Dumping it out in the yard may just recharge that underground level, only giving you a short respite until it can percolate back down and refill the pit. In the house I grew up in, if the power went out for long, except maybe at the end of a dry summer, after a few hours when the pump couldn't run, we might get as much as 6" of standing water across the entire basement. It all depends on your water table and how well the soil can percolate. Clay really limits percolation.

Unless the pipe could direct the water out and away, down a hill or something, it's just like laying a straw in a pan of water...the water will move back and forth regardless of the straw being there.

A French drain, if it can discharge down and away from the foundation, can relieve some of the pressure and help keep the water from building up. Clay complicates things, as it can prevents the water from percolating and just directs it, acting like a waterproof layer.

NOte, one thing that happens with clay is that it swells when it gets wet, and shrinks (sometimes a lot) if it ever dries out. This can cause issues, especially if it's not distributed evenly, jacking up parts when wet, and sinking when dry. The pressure can literally jack up a slab, and potentially crack it. Places that experience lots of this sometimes rely on a post tensioned slab where there are literal cables embedded into the slab that are tightened up with monster bolts prior to backfilling. That helps to prevent or limit cracking when the ground is less than stable. Not something that can be retrofitted. Cutting into a slab with this construction method can be dangerous if you damage or cut a cable.

 

[Elana]

So is it a problem if the drain tile sits full of water most/all of the time? Assuming the water level is still 7" below the top of my sump basin?

As it stands I have two pumps (in the same pit) and a battery backup, so hopefully that is enough to buy me time in the event of disaster, since the drain tile is already full of water. Apparently (and unfortunately) that is where the water table naturally sits under my house. :-/

 

[Reach4]

So is it a problem if the drain tile sits full of water most/all of the time? Assuming the water level is still 7" below the top of my sump basin?

I wouldn't think so.

 

[Gagecalman]

This line of thinking is causing big problems for many municipalities because when there are heavy rains the sewage treatment plant becomes deluged and then they have no choice but to dump untreated sewage right into our rivers and lakes.
Not the right answer

Like I stated "It may not be right but sometimes you gottta do what you gotta do".

If the OP can only dump the sump water 5' from the house the water is just coming right back in as others have stated.
Unless there are other options you either live with a soggy yard or you can take you chance and let it go into the sewer like she stated in post 32.

With everything going on these days I guess you have to pick what you want to be passionate about.

Good luck!

 

[Jadnashua]

The pipe will be full if the water table is above its top. It won't hurt anything. It's highly unlikely you can make your basement totally water tight. If it were, the basement would try to float the whole house up like the hull of a boat. Your sump give it an outlet. Ideally, you'd not build a house where the basement was below the water table, or, ensure proper drainage if the water was coming from above rather than below. It can get quite expensive to pump a lot of water, and then, if you can't move it far enough away, you'll keep doing it over and over again. Clay complicates things considerably.

You need to ensure you're not dealing with runoff from the roof and yard, then deal with the remaining ground water as required.

 

[DIYorBust]

A possible solution might be to raise the basement slab. The disadvantages are obvious, but it may be worth it depending on the circumstances.

 

[Elana]

I thought I'd come back with an update/resolution. Ultimately, we set the sump pump to go off at a higher level, like I described above. Essentially the water level can rise as high as 7" below my basement floor before the sump pump goes off. This means it goes off much less often, which is perhaps the most important factor in giving my lawn an actual chance to dry. Now it only goes off 0-2 times on an average day, or more often if there is a lot of rain. Finally, the sump outlet was connected to a large drywell constructed in my backyard by my regular landscaper. This was done early July. Although it has mostly been summer and a bit of fall while I've had the drywell, we have nonetheless had plenty of rain in Chicagoland over the past three months, and I have not had any issues with a muddy yard in that time. So I would say the drywell was the best idea. My landscaper had started with a smaller one, which didn't work as well, but once he made the drywell larger in early July the problems ceased.

I did insist on one of those freeze drains being installed (something like this to prevent any problems over the winter, so hopefully this solution will continue to work all year round.

https://raybend.com/product/freeze-drain/

 

[DIYorBust]

I thought I'd come back with an update/resolution. Ultimately, we set the sump pump to go off at a higher level, like I described above. Essentially the water level can rise as high as 7" below my basement floor before the sump pump goes off. This means it goes off much less often, which is perhaps the most important factor in giving my lawn an actual chance to dry. Now it only goes off 0-2 times on an average day, or more often if there is a lot of rain. Finally, the sump outlet was connected to a large drywell constructed in my backyard by my regular landscaper. This was done early July. Although it has mostly been summer and a bit of fall while I've had the drywell, we have nonetheless had plenty of rain in Chicagoland over the past three months, and I have not had any issues with a muddy yard in that time. So I would say the drywell was the best idea. My landscaper had started with a smaller one, which didn't work as well, but once he made the drywell larger in early July the problems ceased.

Thanks for the update. Sounds like this solution worked well.