Adding softener and RO unit with existing iron filter

[verbalkint99]

Hello again,

You guys helped me pick out an iron filter a while back so I thought I would come back for some more help.

I don't think the iron filter is working out right now and I am planning on adding a softener now as well. I was told by multiple people that my water was not so hard that I would need a softener right away and that the iron filter might handle what I needed. It is set up to just backwash with water rather than any detergents.

Prior to installing it my water test showed: manganese 0.019mg/L, sulfur 14.9 mg/L, Iron 0.30 mg/L

After installing the katalox filter: manganese 0.091, Sulfer 16.4 mg/L, Iron 0.26 mg/L

Right now I have 2cf of Katalox Lite with an Autotrol valve. We have a 4 bed/2.5 bath house with two adults and two kids under 2. In addition to the softener I am planning on putting in a RO system using the PEX manifold in the basement so that it directly supplies the refrigerator/ice maker rather than mounting it under the sink.

I am going to wait to install the RO until the softener is in place, and thats what I need help with.

My most resent water test showed the following (all in mg/L)

Calcium 76.5
Iron 0.26
Magnesium 24
Manganese 0.091
Sodium 29.4
Sulfer 16.4

Alkalinity - 248
Hardness - 290 mg/L or 16.9gpg
PH - 7.6
Sulfate - 45 mg/L


What do you all think?

 

[Reach4]

Prior to installing it my water test showed: manganese 0.019mg/L, sulfur 14.9 mg/L, Iron 0.30 mg/L

After installing the katalox filter: manganese 0.091, Sulfer 16.4 mg/L, Iron 0.26 mg/L

Are you sure the bypass valve is completely out of bypass?

It is really odd that your manganese went up almost 5x. That media does have manganese dioxide. Did you backwash for an extended time after the installation? See step #4 on http://www.watchwater.de/pdf/katalox-light/KL_operation_manual.pdf

 

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[verbalkint99]

I was shocked when I saw the new test and double checked the numbers. The bypass is for sure closed too.

 

[Reach4]

Note that you cited sulfate in one test and sulfur in the other. The sulfate number will be higher than the sulfur number on the same test.

 

[verbalkint99]

yes, I posted the before and after sulfur in regards to the iron filter and then the most recent sulfur and sulfate for the softener stats. Oh, and I think I overlooked your backwash question. I backwashed for about an hour over what the instructions called for. The filter has been installed for about a year now and gets regular backwash cycles.

 

[Reach4]

You could try cleaning the screens and injector on the RainSoft softener.

How big is your current softener tank, and how often is it set to regenerate?

Is your plumbing 3/4 inch

Regarding the KL, it may be that your water is one that will need a peroxide or chlorine injection into the water coming in.

 

[verbalkint99]

yes, i have 3/4 inch pipes, but I do not have a softener at all. I was told by several people tell me that the iron staining was my biggest issue and I probably would not need a softener. I was wondering about the need for an injection agent. I need to look into that.

 

[Reach4]

Hardness - 290 mg/L or 16.9gpg

I was told by several people tell me that the iron staining was my biggest issue and I probably would not need a softener.

You really want a softener to follow the KL for the hardness. Some people use a softener to remove that level of iron. But you also want the KL to knock down the iron first now that you have it.

Do you get any H2S smell in the cold water? Hot water?

If you put in a softener, put in a boiler drain after the KL and 1 micron cartridge filter maybe, and before the softener. That is a good place to screw on a pressure gauge , take water samples, and to let you fill a water jug with your own mineral water.

 

[ditttohead]

The level of manganese change can occur daily so it is likely not the KL system, just normal daily changes in water. You would need to do regular testing to monitor the water but at that low of a level it should not be that difficult to control. Adding a simple h2o2 injection system would likely correct the contaminant reduction.

 

[verbalkint99]

Yeah, I am planning on adding the softener, but what I need to figure out is what to use to wash the katalox and if there is anything else I would need. So ditto, are you saying I need a h2o2 injector, iron filter, and water softener? I thought h2o2 was to convert the iron so that the softener could filter it out.

 

[ditttohead]

If a softener is to be used for iron reduction then it should be left in the ferrous state. Ferric iron tends to go through the softener and it also sticks to the resin bed. Manganese dioxide ore based medias convert the iron from ferrous to ferric but sometimes they need a little help with an oxidant.

 

[verbalkint99]

So now I am confused. Are you saying I should stop using the katalox lite because of how it converts the iron and just try to rely on a softener? I thought the iron filter would , well, filter out the iron prior to the water going through the softener.

 

[verbalkint99]

For what its worth and for clarity:

This is the filter I have installed now: http://www.water-softeners-filters....-system-2-cu-ft-w-autotrol-performa-valve.php

I had planned to keep it and add a water softener to it. In addition to it I am concerned about if the iron filter is even working based on my water test results and if I need to add chemical regeneration.

 

[ditttohead]

KL ahead of a softener is fine as it converts the ferrous to ferric and filters it out so you should have very little iron exiting the KL system going to the softener. If any does get through it is usually still in the ferrous state and would indicate the KL needs an oxidant added prior to the KL system. Using a softener for iron reduction is rarely recommended as it is extremely inefficient but the initial cost is very low.

Adding oxidant injection is very simple. I prefer a simple flow based pump system but many pople have great luck with simple air injection.

 

[verbalkint99]

Are you referring to something like this?

http://stenner.com/products/pumps/econ-fp-series

 

[ditttohead]

Yes, and the new XTR2 controller by Fleck can be used to control this pump.

 

[Reach4]

Yes, and the new XTR2 controller by Fleck can be used to control this pump.

How could a softener or backwashing filter sense when to turn on a non-proportional pump? I would have thought that an on-off control on a pump would inject before the pressure tank, and that injection after the pressure tank would need a proportional setup.

 

[ditttohead]

The LP is a pulse pump, meaning it is programmed to run based on a pulsed input. The XTR2 has a pulse output capability that can be customized to meet the pumps input needs.

 

[verbalkint99]

Dang, this is getting expensive to filter out 0.5mg/L of iron...lol.

 

[Reach4]

The LP is a pulse pump, meaning it is programmed to run based on a pulsed input. The XTR2 has a pulse output capability that can be customized to meet the pumps input needs.

Nice!