Unique Spring Setup - Advice Needed

[Ryanmo]

My house is currently supplied by a natural spring. Flow rate is variable. I would like to utilize the spring for a new house being constructed on the same property. The spring is approximately 400 feet from the existing house. It gravity feeds into a pump house about 50 feet behind the existing house where it goes into a jet pump and pressure tank. I recently had a water test and will have to treat bacteria, turbidity, and likely hard water. The new house is approximately 350 feet from the spring, and approximately 550 feet from the pump house, with 20-30 feet elevation. I will likely need to utilize a holding tank, to ensure supply is not an issue for the new house. My specific questions are:

1. What's the most sensible way to get water from the spring to the new house? I thought it would be easier to collect the water at the existing pump house, because there's existing power, and run a water line the 550 ft, but I'm not sure how to get the pressure tank to communicate with the pump when it needs water, other than running power that far. Is there a way to achieve this with pressure instead? The other option is to build another pump house close to the spring and run power to it, but it's only gaining 200 feet to go through that. What issues am I not considering in both scenarios?

2. It's there a way to treat water for both locations with one set of filters / chlorination / softeners or would both houses need their own dedicated units? I know they are usually after the pressure tank, so I thought this probably wouldn't be logical.

3. Any input on water storage and equipment would be welcome.

 

[Valveman]

The extra long line will not cause the need for a stronger pump as long as the pipe is large enough like 1.25" or 1.5". The 30' of elevation will require about 15 PSI extra at the pump. But you can still supply both house from the same pump, pressure tank, and filter system. You may need a slightly larger pump for the extra 15 PSI. Something like a Goulds J15S will run several houses and work up to 50/70 pressure, which is what you need. Controlling the pump with a PK1A kit using a 10 gallon size pressure tank will deliver strong constant pressure to both houses, and the 10 gallon size tank is all you need with the CSV.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ryanmo]

Thanks for the help. So I can have the pressure tank and filtration 550 feet from the new house, and it will still work? Will I just need to T off of the filtered line to the new house, and have it also run to the existing house? What material of piping do you suggest and what diameter?

 

[Valveman]

Thanks for the help. So I can have the pressure tank and filtration 550 feet from the new house, and it will still work? Will I just need to T off of the filtered line to the new house, and have it also run to the existing house? What material of piping do you suggest and what diameter?

Yes, that is all you need to do. Any pipe rated for the pressure will work. Poly pipe is my favorite for long distances, but you have to give it room to move around. !.25 or 1.5" is all you need for 500'. I have one that pumps over 7K feet to a house on 1.5" pipe.

 

[Ryanmo]

Yes, that is all you need to do. Any pipe rated for the pressure will work. Poly pipe is my favorite for long distances, but you have to give it room to move around. !.25 or 1.5" is all you need for 500'. I have one that pumps over 7K feet to a house on 1.5" pipe.

Thanks, I'm sorry I ask what might be dumb questions, but I haven't found anybody locally that can help me. So if I understand correctly...

Gravity feed water into a holding tank --->Pull water from the holding tank using a pump big enough to get 70 psi to account for 15~+ psi drop ----> Rout water through appropriate filters ---> Run filtered water 550 ft using 1.5 or so supply line ---> Use existing 1" water line for existing house?

The only thing I'm a little unclear on is how to maintain pressure on clean side of the filters, and how to Y off the main line if one is 1" and the other is 1.5". Will I not get pressure loss after the filtration on top of the head pressure loss from elevation + friction?

 

[Valveman]

Yes but the J15S pump I mentioned will only do a max constant pressure of 60 PSI using a 50/70 switch. To get 70 PSI constant you will need something like a Goulds 10GB07 or 10GB10. Then a PK1A with a 10 gallon pressure tank can be set to give you 70 PSI constant using a 60/80 pressure switch. The CSV will control the pressure. It will deliver 70 PSI constant to the filter, where you will lose about 5 PSI, then you will lose another 15 PSI going up the hill. That will leave you with 50 PSI constant at the house and there is nothing else needed to make that happen. After the filter you just tee off to as many places as you want to go, it won't matter if one line is 1" and the other is 1.5".

 

[Ryanmo]

Great, thanks. Right now I'm planning on doing a spin down 50 micron sediment filter into a 5 micron auto backwash, then either chlorination or UV. Probably will need a softener. Hopefully there won't be too much pressure drop in all that.

 

[Valveman]

Better figure 10 psi.

 

[Ryanmo]

Better figure 10 psi.

Is there an option to boost PSI at the new house? Sounds like I might need another 20 or so.

 

[Valveman]

Then use the 10GB10 and turn up the pressure as needed.

 

[Ryanmo]

Then use the 10GB10 and turn up the pressure as needed.

I'm concerned about the pressure at the existing house that's only 50 feet away, and the cost of those pumps. What if I created a reservoir tank after the filtered water, and use a stand alone pump for that for the new house? That way I don't have to reconfigure the existing house as much. Can I put the pressure switch at the location of the pump instead of the tank at the new house? Could the CSV work for the new house like that? The only concern I have on that method is the existing pump will have to supply the reservoir to the new house as well as the existing house.

Is there any reason you can't have say a 60/80 pressure switch at the pump 550 feet away from a pressure tank?

 

[Valveman]

I think you are making this way more complicated than need be. Double pumping is double the cost and double the trouble. Just set the main booster pump up to deliver the pressure needed, considering the loss of the filter and elevation. If you have a house at the bottom of the elevation that will have too much pressure, simple install a pressure reducing valve on the inlet to that house.

The pressure switch must always be close to the pressure tank, but not necessarily the pump. And even though the pressure at the top would be lower, the pressure at the bottom would still be high and still need a pressure reducing valve.

 

[WorthFlorida]

My house is currently supplied by a natural spring. Flow rate is variable. I would like to utilize the spring for a new house being constructed on the same property........

Ryanmo, have you looked into just having a well dug for the new house?

 

[Ryanmo]

I think you are making this way more complicated than need be. Double pumping is double the cost and double the trouble. Just set the main booster pump up to deliver the pressure needed, considering the loss of the filter and elevation. If you have a house at the bottom of the elevation that will have too much pressure, simple install a pressure reducing valve on the inlet to that house.

The pressure switch must always be close to the pressure tank, but not necessarily the pump. And even though the pressure at the top would be lower, the pressure at the bottom would still be high and still need a pressure reducing valve.

Haha, I'm sure I am. I'll see what I can find and find out my exact elevation loss.

 

[Ryanmo]

Ryanmo, have you looked into just having a well dug for the new house?

Yes, I'm on the list to get a well, but trying to figure this out first. A well will probably be at least $12-$15k and I'm sure that water will need filtering as well. Since the spring water is already there, I wanted to rule that out first. There are disadvantages to both, but I feel like more on the well than the spring at this point.

 

[Ryanmo]

Haha, I'm sure I am. I'll see what I can find and find out my exact elevation loss.

How about this pump using CSV with 60/80 pressure switch? Or should I go with 70/90 switch? I assume the filtration can handle that much. Would the CSV be set to give 80 psi with a 70/90?

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-tanks/utility-sump-pumps/saer-1-hp-booster-peripheral-utility-pump/kf4/p-1568010648319-c-1489153238832.htm

 

[Valveman]

How about this pump using CSV with 60/80 pressure switch? Or should I go with 70/90 switch? I assume the filtration can handle that much. Would the CSV be set to give 80 psi with a 70/90?

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-tanks/utility-sump-pumps/saer-1-hp-booster-peripheral-utility-pump/kf4/p-1568010648319-c-1489153238832.htm

Sorry, can't use a "peripheral" pump with a CSV. Didn't even know you could buy one in the US. Yes that pump will work with a 70/90 switch, but you will need a huge pressure tank as it will not work with a CSV. I also do not expect those type pump to last very long or be very efficient. Any pump with a centrifugal impeller that has a max pressure of 100 PSI will work.

If you could rig up a basin or wet well at the pump house, you could use a submersible. There is a 1HP Hallmark that sells for 150 bucks or so that will do the job nicely.

 

[Ryanmo]

Sorry, can't use a "peripheral" pump with a CSV. Didn't even know you could buy one in the US. Yes that pump will work with a 70/90 switch, but you will need a huge pressure tank as it will not work with a CSV. I also do not expect those type pump to last very long or be very efficient. Any pump with a centrifugal impeller that has a max pressure of 100 PSI will work.

If you could rig up a basin or wet well at the pump house, you could use a submersible. There is a 1HP Hallmark that sells for 150 bucks or so that will do the job nicely.

I planned on a reservoir. I can't find PSI output numbers on submersible pumps I'm finding though.

 

[Ryanmo]

This should work though.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-tanks/utility-sump-pumps/saer-centrifugal-utility-pump/cmp79/p-1568010648260-c-1489153238832.htm?tid=741f109b-0f74-451f-91a0-4e20dc76a347&ipos=3&exp=false

 

[LLigetfa]

This should work though.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-tanks/utility-sump-pumps/saer-centrifugal-utility-pump/cmp79/p-1568010648260-c-1489153238832.htm?tid=741f109b-0f74-451f-91a0-4e20dc76a347&ipos=3&exp=false

That won't make enough pressure. Note that max working pressure is not what the pump can make, just what it can tolerate.