NedFlanders
New Member
I am new to this forum, only came here to see if anybody had mentioned turbomax water heaters. Wanted to see what others have found.
I found the post with not a lot of actual hands on experience, just folks running the numbers to compare with a boilermate or superstor.
Everybody was talking only about gal per min of hot water.
This is only half the reason to use a turbomax.
I have found that most if not all condensing boilers hooked up in a typical home do not condense very much at all. There is a very good reason why this is happening. It is because they have not followed the directions in the manual and have not followed proper engineering practices. I will admit that the directions try to hide the truth about how you HAVE to hook them up to work properly. A lot of the time they will just tell you to adhere to some approved standard so they dont have to break the bad news about how you have to add a buffer tank in order for it to work right.
Thats right you need a buffer tank. You might be able to get away with not having one if your heating system is just right and can deliver enough cold water back to the boiler. This is normally not the case. Most people have baseboard heat. Baseboard heat does not work with a low mass boiler without a buffer tank. Well it works (most of the time) but it is not efficient , and defeats the whole purpose of getting a condensing boiler. And in some cases will not work at all because the boiler will overheat.
You need to size your boiler to keep with the hot water demand of your customer. This size boiler normally can not turn down low enough to support small zones of baseboard heat. This is believed to be the leading cause of problems with this style boiler, It causes short cycling and overheating .
Baseboard heat is supposed to be hot all the way to the end of your loop. Which means the water going back to the boiler is hot...too hot for the boiler to be efficient and condense.
A buffer tank is always cooler on the bottom and that is what you send into the boiler, you only heat the top of the tank that is sent out to the heating system.
I like the turbomax because it kills two birds with one stone. You get a very impressive water heater and a buffer tank in one. To put a boilermate as a zone is a real rip-off to the customer and is the wrong solution and if the customer was smart enough could sue you for not following the code.
Thats right I am going to argue that is is a code violation to not put a buffer tank with this style boiler hooked up to baseboard heat.
It does not jibe with ASHRE standards or any math that I can come up with.
I asked every rep from every boiler company about this and they ALL quietly admit im right and more than one sais the turbomax is the best way to go.
Burnham boiler company will not honer the warranty on their boilers without a buffer tank. See if you can find this in writing anywhere......Their lawyer says we referred you to use ASHRE and ANSI standards as the ultimate way this product needs to be hooked up.
They are not the only ones who will do this, nobody comes out and admits it at first. Instead they try to make you believe that a low loss header is supposed to prevent this. And most of you buy it. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with fixing that problem, that is NOT what a low loss header is for and never has been. And anybody who believes it is not thinking and has no business installing heating systems. Low loss header was made because most guys couldn't figure out how to wire a primary secondary loop set up let alone pipe it right.
My "low loss header" is my buffer tank. It is actually supposed to be called a hydrolic break or separator anyway but that didnt sound "easy" enough.
I also have helped a slightly undersized oil boiler keep up and stop condensing, now it is easy to clean and works better. The customers are always amazed by the difference when I switch them over.
Most boilermate I see have been piped with 3/4 pipe not inch and have 007 circ on them this isnt boilermates fault but it a common reason why they dont work very good. Also in towns with a lot of dirt in the water they clog the heat exchanger and the design of the water flow in the tank does not fix it. The turbomax self cleans.
Bottom line the turbomax is a very good product IMHO much much better that a boilermate.
I also love the added side benefits it offers the boiler.
oops bored now gotta run
Ned
PS Not a rep for anybody just like the product
I found the post with not a lot of actual hands on experience, just folks running the numbers to compare with a boilermate or superstor.
Everybody was talking only about gal per min of hot water.
This is only half the reason to use a turbomax.
I have found that most if not all condensing boilers hooked up in a typical home do not condense very much at all. There is a very good reason why this is happening. It is because they have not followed the directions in the manual and have not followed proper engineering practices. I will admit that the directions try to hide the truth about how you HAVE to hook them up to work properly. A lot of the time they will just tell you to adhere to some approved standard so they dont have to break the bad news about how you have to add a buffer tank in order for it to work right.
Thats right you need a buffer tank. You might be able to get away with not having one if your heating system is just right and can deliver enough cold water back to the boiler. This is normally not the case. Most people have baseboard heat. Baseboard heat does not work with a low mass boiler without a buffer tank. Well it works (most of the time) but it is not efficient , and defeats the whole purpose of getting a condensing boiler. And in some cases will not work at all because the boiler will overheat.
You need to size your boiler to keep with the hot water demand of your customer. This size boiler normally can not turn down low enough to support small zones of baseboard heat. This is believed to be the leading cause of problems with this style boiler, It causes short cycling and overheating .
Baseboard heat is supposed to be hot all the way to the end of your loop. Which means the water going back to the boiler is hot...too hot for the boiler to be efficient and condense.
A buffer tank is always cooler on the bottom and that is what you send into the boiler, you only heat the top of the tank that is sent out to the heating system.
I like the turbomax because it kills two birds with one stone. You get a very impressive water heater and a buffer tank in one. To put a boilermate as a zone is a real rip-off to the customer and is the wrong solution and if the customer was smart enough could sue you for not following the code.
Thats right I am going to argue that is is a code violation to not put a buffer tank with this style boiler hooked up to baseboard heat.
It does not jibe with ASHRE standards or any math that I can come up with.
I asked every rep from every boiler company about this and they ALL quietly admit im right and more than one sais the turbomax is the best way to go.
Burnham boiler company will not honer the warranty on their boilers without a buffer tank. See if you can find this in writing anywhere......Their lawyer says we referred you to use ASHRE and ANSI standards as the ultimate way this product needs to be hooked up.
They are not the only ones who will do this, nobody comes out and admits it at first. Instead they try to make you believe that a low loss header is supposed to prevent this. And most of you buy it. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with fixing that problem, that is NOT what a low loss header is for and never has been. And anybody who believes it is not thinking and has no business installing heating systems. Low loss header was made because most guys couldn't figure out how to wire a primary secondary loop set up let alone pipe it right.
My "low loss header" is my buffer tank. It is actually supposed to be called a hydrolic break or separator anyway but that didnt sound "easy" enough.
I also have helped a slightly undersized oil boiler keep up and stop condensing, now it is easy to clean and works better. The customers are always amazed by the difference when I switch them over.
Most boilermate I see have been piped with 3/4 pipe not inch and have 007 circ on them this isnt boilermates fault but it a common reason why they dont work very good. Also in towns with a lot of dirt in the water they clog the heat exchanger and the design of the water flow in the tank does not fix it. The turbomax self cleans.
Bottom line the turbomax is a very good product IMHO much much better that a boilermate.
I also love the added side benefits it offers the boiler.
oops bored now gotta run
Ned
PS Not a rep for anybody just like the product