Your thoughts concerning this sink/dishwasher setup

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by KAdams4458, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    This one is ugly. How would you fix it? I can't see a way to do it without opening the wall and shifting things down, but as I don't spend all day doing this stuff, I'm betting there is an easier way. I have not been able to figure out a way to shorten the tail pieces up enough to get the horizontal section high enough, due to the addition of the dishwasher. I figure I could waste half the day wandering around the plumbing supply store trying to figure it out on my own, or I could throw up a picture of the fiasco and let more experienced minds have a crack at it. I sure hope you've all recovered from your turkey-induced comas enough to help out!

    2012-11-17 17.52.42.jpg

    FYI, we're under the 2009 UPC here.

    -K.C. Adams
  2. kreemoweet

    kreemoweet Member

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Seattle. WA
    To begin with, you could get a sink tailpiece with dishwasher wye fitting, that attaches directly to the
    sink strainer. Readily available everywhere. Also, I am sure you want to trash all those pieces with
    the gray stuff goobered all over them, that's inexcusable.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Lay-out wise it is fine. What is all the gray goop??
  4. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    I have never seen a dishwasher wye that would attach directly to the sink, but that does sound like the trick. I'll try to track one down.

    The grey stuff is some kind of as seen on TV spray sealer. Also the previous owner's work. They left the can of it under the sink. Nice, eh?

    And yes, I will be trashing all of that plastic garbage. It's incredibly flimsy stuff that looks like it came from a dollar store.
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,302
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The p-trap has been reversed because the tailpieces are too long. If the dishwasher inlet were on the horizontal, it would allow for the shorter tailpiece sections and you could use a normal p-trap. What you have is white PVC with slip joint fittings. They do make them with the built-in 90 bends, which would reduce the clutter of the nuts and slip joint washers. Or at reduce the number of them.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  6. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Excellent. I'll hit the store tomorrow morning and try to get everything I need. Thanks for the help! I'll let you all know how it goes.
  7. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Good catch on the trap, Terry!
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,056
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    There are several ways it could be revised, depending on what parts your local store carries. A 'hi-line/direct connect" center outlet waste with the dishwasher branch fitting between the tee and the trap would be the most logical. There is NOTHING about the way it is now that should be "salvaged" starting at the wall connection. I am surprised it even stays together, although that might be why everything is daubed with that grey stuff.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  9. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    It actually doesn't stay together. I have had to stop leaks several times with this setup, but oddly, it never seems to start leaking when any stores are open, so it just gets cleaned up and reassembled over and over again. Each time, the idea is that it's just temporary... I guess we all know how often those temporary repairs seems to hang around for a while.
  10. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    The problem deepens...

    After replacing the entire mess, the best I could do was to put the dishwasher wye in horizontally. There was just no room to do it any other way. It all works now, but I couldn't exactly set the wye for the dishwasher drain in with the hose nipple upright due to clearance issues with the bottom of the sink. Perhaps a more flexible drain hose will allow me to tweak it all the way upright.

    Now, I thought I had conquered the beast, but one day after completing the repairs I started hearing water running under the dishwasher every time the kitchen sink was being used. At first I thought that somehow waste water was flowing back through the drain hose, but that turned out not to be the case. Puzzled, I pulled the dishwasher out to look for this water sound, and found an uncapped 1/2" copper pipe protruding from the wall that was dribbling water... Waste water, specifically. Okay... So I pull away some of the water-logged drywall and find this. (Sorry for the fuzzy photo, the good camera is still dead.)

    2012-11-28 20.44.35.jpg

    Hmm. I'm going to cap the stub that sticks out of the wall for now just to stop the dribble, but what do you folks make of this mess? I had to laugh at it.
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,302
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    A dishwasher drain uncapped and unused.

    Normally that dishwasher drain would have looked more like this

    [​IMG]

    A Johnson tee for the dishwasher drain, which is placed "higher" then the kitchen counter.
  12. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Yep. So, perhaps I should extend it up higher than the counter and make use of it. It would sure clean up the cabinet under the sink. I can get behind the wall over the counter easily enough at this point.
  13. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Got ahead of myself... Would extending it upward be suitable for this setup?
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,302
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If you have access, it's a slick way to drain the dishwasher. I've installed hundreds of them back when I was doing new construction plumbing.
    Here's a picture of someone else's work. The cap can point inward or outward, but it does need either the cap with the holes, or a drilled hole if you use the 3/4" PVC cap.
    [​IMG]

    In Seattle, I would be running this with black ABS pipe, and copper pipe for the drain.
    The last home I plumbed was in Lake Stevens.
  15. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Thanks, Terry.

    I'll go source one of those Johnson tees. The backsplash above the counter is just a crumby piece of cement board screwed to the wall at the moment, so I will have no trouble getting in there to punch a hole to the exterior for the vent. Thanks for the help!
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,056
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    You must have missed the part about a "direct connection" center outlet waste, because if you HAD used it the tee would have fit between it and the trap in the upright section.
  17. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    I didn't miss that part. I purchased and used that direct connection, but there still wasn't quite enough room to place the dishwasher connection vertically. Between 1965 and now, the sink was changed from a single shallow basin to a double deep basin, and the rough in was installed very high. I trimmed the tail of that dishwasher connection down until the trap was bumping the drain hose nipple, and the trap outlet was still almost 3/4" too low.
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,302
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I could see that the sink was now lower. That's becoming a big issue with the new granite counters and deep sinks.
    The new standard is 16" off the floor.
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,056
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Was the direct connection waste brass tubing or plastic, because there is a difference as to how far down they install.
  20. KAdams4458

    KAdams4458 New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Plastic. I'd actually prefer brass, but it was special order. Go figure, eh?
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