Why does drywall work in a Kerdi Shower?

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by jadnashua, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Montreal
    Kerdi is or was not -- ever -- in question . Drywall is . It is amazing that the drywall is the main product which holds the Kerdi and the tile . If something happen to it -- drywall -- then you can kiss goodbye the tile and the containment . Should I mention that drywall is the weakest possible material as a substrate ?

    Porcelain tile --- 2.50$/sf and up

    Kerdi ---------- 1.60$/sf and up

    Durock or
    Permabase ----- 1.30$/sf and up


    Drywall -------- 0.47$/sf ..................See where it leads us

    Protect your investment ......Kerdi is not the only item which should be considered !
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    No argument that drywall directly under tile is a bad decision where it can get wet...but, none of those examples are of a properly built Kerdi installation that failed in some manner. The point being, if you have good workmanship and follow the procedures, nothing behind the Kerdi membrane ever gets wet. If your pipe springs a leak, that's not a fault of Kerdi, and your damage if left unresolved, will likely require some tear out to access it and repair things. Modern plumbing, once installed and checked, rarely leaks, at least in the pipes...not counting the valve, but then, that leak would be on the wet side of the shower and never an issue with the integrity of the structure.
  4. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    606
    Location:
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    Seen this steam shower few days ago . Ready to tile the left overs from others .....no membrane present on the tray , no floor membrane tied to the walls , drain grate installed with thinset over the foam tray , unprotected foam tray from heavy miscellaneous items , air pockets under the foam tray , metal trim , etc.........this is what easy mean in real world . Just put the Kerdi over and everything else is good .......I bet they also bought the Schluter kit from a certified supplier which explained them '' how easy is to install it over the drywall '' .


    Shower&steamer screwed up.jpg
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    You are all pointing out what may happen if you do not follow the instructions or follow good workmanship practices...when installed properly, a Kerdi shower doesn't leak. It's not all that hard, but like most things, you need some level of skill. My neighbor calls someone in to replace a light bulb because she can't remember which way to unscrew it...some people cannot deal with even some of the little things in life. Another reason why Schluter wants you to buy their stuff from an authorized source - you have a much better likelihood of having someone who knows how to use the materials properly.

    Schluter does have lots of visual aids in the box (comes with the drain) and a handy 800-number to ask questions, and, hopefully, where you bought it has at least someone you could ask, but some people should never be trusted to build anything!
  6. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

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    Thank the DIY channel for 90% of the "contractors" today.
  7. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

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    ... probably a few around here too. ;)
  8. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
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  9. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    There is nothing saying the contrary. Just a messenger.......saying the same thing as Schluter's literature.
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  11. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    When you choose a road , you have to stick with , days in and out.

    Multiple roads need exploration , trial and error , etc. and none of the membrane mfgs are against and DO recommend proper building techniques and codes applied to it.

    The people mentioned from John's Bridge Forum have my respect and theirs posts reflect knowledge and experience. Remember one road , one direction , you have to stick with it.

    I don't see any more the point of explaining and debating . There is nothing left but copy and paste , as you are saying , and there are many which are doing it now. Seeing beyond it or reading between lines .....well , looks like it has no value , remember mediocrecy is just good enough. Or should I say Put the Kerdi on , you want leak....LOL
  12. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Dry Wall Failures: Mold

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  13. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    606
    Location:
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    No more drywall talk .......Tile, stone keep them coming.
  14. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    No Drywall Talk - Slope Issues with Kerdi Shower Instead

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
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    John, the reason drywall works in a shower is because when you install Kerdi properly, there is no way from that tiled side that the drywall will ever get wet. None of the examples shown by you were of a properly constructed shower or bathtub/shower when one of the approved, tested, warranted Kerdi installations were done. It is a given, that when drywall is subjected to frequent wet conditions, it does not hold up - that's all you have shown, and is generally understood by anyone with any life experience using the stuff. Pointing it out again, is like a broken record.

    If you're uncertain about which side is the wet side...look at your roof, the drywall underneath it on the ceiling and the adjacent walls - it all works fine, as does the drywall next to the windows or doors. One expects the roof, doors, windows, and shower are put together properly, and if they are, the drywall STAYS dry. The material is used because it is cost effective, and it works.

    As with anything, workmanship counts along with using the products involved as they were designed and tested. Use outside of those parameters is a wild card, and there's no guarantee it will work.

    Pathetic is trying to make yourself look good at the expense of others when they have valid opinions and reliable products and their manufacturers experience behind them. This is one of the main reasons John Whipple has been banned from several sites around the internet...and, a reason why when it comes to tiling things, the general attitude and depth of experience at www.johnbridge.com is a recommended source...you can get exposure to multiple pros without getting flak from one person.
  16. DougB

    DougB Member

    @Jim DeBruycker: What IS wrong with you? Don't you have a life? Yes, yes, if you do everything perfectly as Schluter reccomends, and all the plumbing is perfect, as Schluter reccomends, then everything will be 'perfect'. Otherwise you will be im-perfect, and thus rot in hell, along with the sheetrock backer you used. And if you did use cement board - well then you are not 'pure' and may not go to Schluter Heaven.

    Your acting nuts Jim boy!!!!!

    After reading all your rants I think that maybe you should start the 'Schluter Religion' - convert as many as possible. Just as any religion, you want to convert others to your belief.

    So what? Why do I, or anyone else give a Rat's A** about your opinion. It's unreal to read your insistance about a product that you have no connection to.

    You're correct Jim - Schluter is the 'tile god' or 'shower god' or 'membrane god'. It's all good. Calm down and put your GI Joe pajamies on and get some rest.
  17. DougB

    DougB Member

    John,

    I have done a lot of showers (3) and I've found some really exciting things to share with you.

    First my main concern was the cost of the drywall behind the Kerdi. I mean you can spend $30 - $50 dollars for that drywall. Well I've solved that problem!

    The other day I was at the liquor store. Ya know, they have a lotta boxes... Well I got a boat load of them, and took'em apart real careful (it's more relaxing to listen to some Deliverance music). So I stapled the boxes to the studs - did two layers, and made sure not to overlap the seams.

    Then I had some left over varnish that my son hadn't huffed - and applied it to the cardboard. I figger a nice waterproof substrate. So right here you've saved over fiffty dollars!!! Then that unmodified thin set ( hey it's 1/2 price cause it was 5 yrs old) - stuck that Kerdi real gud.

    I mean since the Kerdi stuff is waterproof - ya can go right over dat cardboard!

    And hey, it worked! We've been using the shower for a couple a days, and everything is fine. We may even put up some tile.

    John, don't feel too bad gettin' adivice from a fella like me. I'm sure in time you'll be expert like me.
  18. Justadrip

    Justadrip New Member

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    Location:
    New York
    So who is the lesser of 2 evils? Big Red Shoe or Big Wrench/Ego?
  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,139
    Location:
    New England
    And, where is that an approved, tested backer material? Just more BS, like John trying to do a bonded mudbed over a decoupling membrane - use the products as they were designed, and they work. Choose to do it otherwise, and all bets are off. Should you question your ability to do it per the instructions, build it better. Don't trust the materials, use something else. Invent your own, be prepared to back it up like the manufacturers do with testing, training, support, and their money. Talk is cheap, the advice I give is based on the manufacturer's instructions. If you don't believe me, read them yourself.
  20. DougB

    DougB Member

    All kidding aside - and I do a lot of it. John is a real pro - and he has a lot of real world, documented examples, sucesses.

    Then come's some 'tool' like Jim, who doesn't know what he doesn't know. Shoots off his mouth. Actually, I'm not going to feed the Red Shoe troll any more. He can post whatever he want's. If he gets no response, he's outta gas.

    As an aside, the Red Shoe is really a spolier. He's all over the internet. If you ask a question he gives his half assed opinion - and thus spoils other more qualified responses.

    I'm with John - that John Bridge form with CX - that's artificial - a broken record - 'follow the manufacters....'. I can see the change in that forum from 3 years ago when I went there for advice for my last bathroom.
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