What is the Best PEX System Out There (to put in an attic)?

[RogerPDX]

I am re-plumbing my beach cabin.
The present plumbing is an RTI (brass fitting) system up in the attic. Everything is insulated in rubber, with 4" of rock wool under the horizontal pipes and 18" of fiberglass on top of them.

I learned that RTI had a class action lawsuit because their brass fittings were failing all over the nation, so this is a good time to replace it. So far my choices are Wirsbo/Uponor or RTI. I guess the RTI is a new & improved version.

Does anybody have experience with these brands?
Which system is the best?
Is there an even better system available?

Thanks for your feed back.

 

[Tally Wacher]

I'd go with Uponor. Just finished my total repipe with EP fittings, not one leak. I would think the general consensus is Pex A is the one to go with if you are not doing copper.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

FWIW, insulation between the living spaces, the pipes, and the outside often is not a great idea. You want heat from the home to get to the pipes to keep them from freezing or getting below the dew point.

 

[RogerPDX]

I'd go with Uponor. Just finished my total repipe with EP fittings, not one leak. I would think the general consensus is Pex A is the one to go with if you are not doing copper.

Thanks. The only copper might be the elbows that the sink & toilet faucets are attached to. Is copper a problem with Pex A? Did you use a manifold distribution box?

 

[CountryBumkin]

Copper is not a problem. Uponor makes their Pro-PEX fittings in plastic and copper. http://www.supplyhouse.com/ProPEX-Expander-Fittings-526000
You should use a manifold, that is one of the key benefits of PEX system.

 

[Tally Wacher]

Thanks. The only copper might be the elbows that the sink & toilet faucets are attached to. Is copper a problem with Pex A? Did you use a manifold distribution box?

I went with copper stub-outs with ears as well. I was contemplating a manifold, but used what Uponor calls multiport tees of the individual zones so that I could run a dedicated hot water return line. Used to wait 5+ minutes for hot water, now it is about 30-45 seconds after I press the on-demand recirc pump. I'd go with the EP (engineered plastic) fittings if I were you, they are cheaper. I've got a sh*tload of stuff left over that is going on ebay soon. I always overbuy and change my mind a bit as I am going through a project.

 

[RogerPDX]

Are these the tee's you used? http://www.uponor-usa.com/Media-Roo...for-Commercial-PEX-Plumbing-Applications.aspx

 

[Tally Wacher]

Are these the tee's you used? http://www.uponor-usa.com/Media-Roo...for-Commercial-PEX-Plumbing-Applications.aspx

No, those have inlet/outlet that are too big for my residential application. I ran a 3/4 supply with 1/2 drops. I used these:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/EP-Multi-Port-Tees-485000
Pick your poison (your application needs). I used the flow through multiports on the hot side as I ran a loop. On the cold side I ran a mixture of flow through and regular (closed ended) multiports as directed by the location of the zones.

 

[RogerPDX]

Thanks for the info. Do you know if Manabloc's manifold works with Uponor? I like the off/on aspects of the Manabloc manifold. They sell a brass set up at Supply House that also has off/on valves.

 

[Tally Wacher]

I believe that you can use the expansion system on the Viega manabloc. Uponor has its own modular manifols that you can put together. It comes in 3 and 4 valve sections. It also allows you to custom configure the inlet and outlet sizes. Personally, I'd go with the Uponor system, but it is more expensive.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Uponor-EP-Valved-Manifolds-1388000

 

[CountryBumkin]

I used the copper ProPEX manifolds in my system http://www.supplyhouse.com/ProPEX-Copper-Manifolds-519000

 

[Reach4]

Best? If you believe "you get what you pay for", then Uponor/Wirsbo (PEX-A) would be best. Its fittings have a larger ID, and the pipe is very high quality. Best bang for the buck? I might go with PEX-B. Readily available. Less expensive tool. Less expensive pipe. I think you can use the fittings designed for PEX-B on PEX-A, but not the other way around. Click Inbox above.

 

[RogerPDX]

I used the copper ProPEX manifolds in my system http://www.supplyhouse.com/ProPEX-Copper-Manifolds-519000

Did you use the Uponor pex connectors? If you did, do the work 100%? What is the advantage of going with copper manifold vs the plastic?

 

[RogerPDX]

Best? Uponor/Wirsbo (PEX-A) would be best. I might go with PEX-B. Click Inbox above.

I read the article on the different Pex 'letters' and don't actually understand the difference. A & B both sound good. The memory issues with B are a hassle for sure, but workable. How about a tighter bend? Is A easier for a tight/small 90º bend with 1/2" pipe?

It mentioned that the warranty's are typically 20 - 25 years... how long does Pex actually last?

 

[CountryBumkin]

I used the Uponor connections. I did all the work myself. I bought a used "Expander Tool" off E-bay. I prefer the "proPEX" method/style over the crimp style PEX connections as its more idiot proof.
I used a mixture of copper and "plastic "PEX connections. Mostly plastic for the 90 degree fittings, and tee-fittings and such. But I wanted to use copper for anything that is going to be "touched" or "exposed" (like under sink shut-off connections). I think the copper is stronger when it comes to the manifold (force of turning the manifold shutoff valves on/off). But I prefer the plastic fittings everywhere else and I don't ever have to worry about corrosion or different material properties (expansion rates, etc.) with the plastic fittings - and the plastic is cheaper.

 

[Reach4]

I read the article on the different Pex 'letters' and don't actually understand the difference. A & B both sound good. The memory issues with B are a hassle for sure, but workable. How about a tighter bend? Is A easier for a tight/small 90º bend with 1/2" pipe?

It mentioned that the warranty's are typically 20 - 25 years... how long does Pex actually last?

PEX-A has a little smaller bending radius.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene says "The advantageous properties of PEX also make it a candidate for progressive replacement of metal and thermoplastic pipes, especially in long-life applications, because the expected lifetime of PEX pipes reaches 50 years. However, the longest warranty offered by any PEX producer is 25 years." I would like to think the life would be more than 50 years, but it has not been around that long. There have been instances of pipe that was expected to last a long time, but it did not live up to expectations. Polybutylene pipe, is the one I am thinking of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutylene Its life in the presence of chlorine is/was not up to expectations.

 

[RogerPDX]

I used the Uponor connections. I did all the work myself. I bought a used "Expander Tool" off E-bay.

Did you use Pex A?

 

[Jadnashua]

All pex has memory, but the manufacturing method determines how strong it is, with pex-A having the longest and strongest long-chain bonds. This makes it slightly more flexible so, as mentioned, it can be bent into a smaller radius than the other types and, maybe a big deal to some, it is the only version that can recover from a kink. It takes a heat gun, but it will not damage the pipe. If you kink -B, or -C, you have to cut the kink out and insert a fitting. Personally, I think the increased ID, the flexibility, and the repair of kinks useful additions to the other types. Keep in mind that the area of the opening is the squared factor, so a little difference adds up. It's easier to expand the joint and rely on it collapsing to make a seal, than placing the crimp ring in the proper place and getting it just right (not too tight, not too loose).

 

[RogerPDX]

All pex has memory, but the manufacturing method determines how strong it is, with pex-A having the longest and strongest long-chain bonds. It's easier to expand the joint and rely on it collapsing to make a seal, than placing the crimp ring in the proper place and getting it just right (not too tight, not too loose).

I didn't have a problem with the old RTI Pex-A, clamp and ratchet, it's just that I have a possible time bomb in my attic. I have read that they think Pex-A will last longer too.

 

[Jadnashua]

Crimp or expansion both work, Crimp has an advantage that, if you're careful, you can remove the ring and redo...on the expansion system, you essentially have to cut the fitting off and if things are still long enough, install a new one. Given that, from a function viewpoint, I still prefer the expansion system.