water spot size?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by charles2, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    Is there a list somewhere of water spot sizes? Looking for a good performing, reliable, elongated gravity flush ADA model with the deepest and widest water spot.
  2. GeorgeCT

    GeorgeCT DIY Junior Member

    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I know Toto lists water spot (Toto lists it as "Water Surface") on each toilet.
    Form the Toto web site ( http://www.totousa.com/ ) Select a toilet, click on the "Downloads & Resources" tab, click on "Spec Sheet", click on models listed, located on the second page is the Water Surface size.

    I don't know of an easy way to find water spot size in a more efficient manner.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I will at least tell you about some Totos you should consider. All the Totos I list meet your criteria for ADA (or "Universal") height, and are: (a) Reliable; (b)gravity toilets with (c) a GREAT flush.

    The original Drake: CST744SL: ADA Height, 1.6gpf, Water Spot 10 3/8" x 8 1/4"
    The Eco Drake: CST744EL: ADA Height, 1.28 gpf, Water Spot 10 3/8" x 8 1/4"

    Drake II: CST454CEFG: Universal Height, 1.28 gpf, Water Spot 7 1/8" x 9 1/8"
    Drake II 1G: CST454CUFG: Universal Height, 1.0 gpf, Water Spot Size not yet available (different-looking tank and trip lever from the standard Drake II)

    Ultramax II: MS604114CEFG: One-piece toilet, Universal Height, 1.28 gpf, Water Spot 7 1/8" x 9 1/8"

    Original Ultramax: MS854114SL: One-piece toilet, ADA Height, 1.6 gpf, Water Spot 10 5/16 x 8 1/4
    Eco Original Utramax: MS854114EL: One-piece toilet, ADA Height, 1.28 gpf, Water Spot 10 1/4 x 8 1/4

    Hope this helps.
  4. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    Thanks. Is Toto the only mfr that lists water spots?
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I'm sure not. But it's the best one, and the one most often recommended on here. After I just did a bunch of work for you, at least read the toilet reviews in the green box above.
  6. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    Thanks and I apologize if I seemed ungrateful. I've heard lots of good things about Toto over the years (I'm a remodeler). Problem is no Toto dealers in my area, so I'm left with American Standard and Kohler. Kohler's Highline Classic 14799-0 has a 11-3/8 x 8 water spot, which seems to be at least as good as any you listed. I'm also interested in American Standard's 710FA.101.020, but can't find any specs on their website.
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,815
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I have to wonder why the water surface area is of concern and can only surmise it is to keep streaks below the water line. If so, one must also ascertain the location relative to the plumb line of the dump.
  8. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    That's half of it - the other is odor control. This is getting too technical!
  9. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Didn't mean to seem crabby.

    Toto is based in Georgia. Try here for places that carry them: http://www.totousa.com/Default.aspx?tabid=185 Also online sources available if nobody in your area. CST744S or CST744E are going to be available at a price close to that AS you are looking at.

    The AS you mentioned -- is this a Lowe's only item (the "Saver" series)? I can't match the Lowe's item to a specific model on the AS web site. Good luck on getting good quality from AS at a big box, so I would call this a no-go. (Lots of info on this site about quality issues with AS toilets.)

    Also, for what it's worth, depth is important too, in a water spot. There's a limit to how many litres the water spot can be and still keep the flush cycle (which includes the refill in its measurement) at the specified amount. So wide and shallow may not cover the waste, if you know what I mean. I'm not aware of anyone who gives the spec on the liquid volume of the waterspot.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  10. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,815
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
  11. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    The quick availability of replacement parts is also a concern.
  12. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    Hard to believe it works, and would prefer not to use it if the water spot is big enough.
  13. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    Yes, Lowe's is the closest source to the job site. I personally used a couple of AS toilets for a decade and needed only to replace the flappers. Have you seen any complaints about this particular model?
  14. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    It used to be that Toto's CST704L, Kiki CST703 and CST713 were highly regarded, but I don't see these on Terry's list. What happened to them? And does Toto still use universal replacement parts?
  15. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    NOW we are talking turkey! Bottom line is that Toto uses straightforward, non-proprietary parts made in large part by Korky here in the US and for which factory-authorized Korky replacement parts are available at any Lowe's and many local hardware stores.

    Korky "Fits Toto" Red Flapper at Lowe's: Click Here

    Korky 528MP Fill Valve at Lowe's, functionally-identical to the new Toto Universal Replacement Fill Valve that Korky manufactures for Toto and which Toto sells directly: Click Here

    So, now and for the forseeable future, you will have no problem getting replacement parts easily and locally, or by mail order from Lowe's at an affordable price. Toto also has excellent customer service; if you call them with an issue, they are in Georgia, are very nice, and often will just send you a part free even if they don't have to, just to keep you as a happy customer.
  16. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The first two are long-discontinued "Reliance Commercial Line" toilets, and the 713 is I think the Carusoe, all with 2" flush valves. Last spec sheets I found on the first ones were from 1997.

    Come on to the 21st Century! Terry indicates that the basic Drake, with readily-available parts and a great flush with the 3" flush valve, is something he considers commercial grade. I think I saw where he just put a bunch of them in his local church (look at the end of the CST744 owner reviews). It comes in an ADA height version and a right-handle if you need them at the job site. CST744SL or CST744EL for the ADA-height and add an "R" to the model for a right-handle.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  17. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    OK, you've convinced me to pull the trigger on the CST744SL.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2012
  18. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Great! If you want to buy local, I would look off the Toto supplier locator I linked to above.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2012
  19. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    New York, NY
    We generally don't talk about online sources here, but you'll see what i mean if you google the model number. look at colonial white as well as cotton when you find the site. colonial is closer to current AS white.
  20. charles2

    charles2 New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Georgia
    OK, I understand. But this is a replacement for a 1979 Kohler lowboy, not AS.
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