UPDATED: Repairing Leaking Toto Eco Drake Flapper

[moflow]

1/3/2021: Thread updated below.

About 6 months ago, I installed an Eco Drake ADA Elongated toilet, CST744EL with the "E Max" system. I had actually purchased the toilet a few years ago, but it sat in its boxes until a bathroom renovation happened.

I just discovered an issue, the tank is losing water through the gray E Max flapper. I turned off the shut off and the entire tank drains in an hour or two, although you can't hear it dripping away. (I discovered this by managing to hear the fill valve running ever so slightly one evening).

The flapper seems okay, visually, a small amount of slime has formed on it.

However it does not sit perfectly centered over the drain after flushing, I think that is likely the issue. I manually moved the flapper to center it and it appears to be holding water (or it is leaking much more slowly, I need to confirm this).

The chain is hanging from the last hole at the end of the handle arm. This is about an inch laterally (toward rear) from the center of the flapper. The flapper hinge attachments have some play. So each time the toilet is flushed, the flapper is left against the these stops toward the rear where it is attached to the overflow stack.

Perhaps bending the brass arm would work and keep things centered during flushing, but a one inch change at the end is a large bend for a piece of brass rod. Any suggestions on how to do this without hurting the flush assembly or the arm? And why would Toto not ensure the chain attachment isn't directly over the flapper center if this is critical?

Also how much slack/slop should there be in the chain? I shortened the chain length by two links to reduce slop when flushing. Would continuously cleaning slime off the flapper solve the problem?

I've read through other flapper issues, and am still stumped. I have never used any products (chlorine or other) in the tank.

 

[WJcandee]

Slime development is going to depend on how much organic matter is in your particular water, and it varies. It's not uncommon for a flapper to accumulate slime over time.

You could bend that rod a little and see if it helps. It doesn't have to pull perfectly straight up as the flapper will seat itself as it flops back into the water flow.

That grey flapper was swapped for a different model in the past two years. Now they recommend one of the Korky universal replacements. My impression is that it didn't hold up as well as expected. It has a slightly smaller sealing surface than the Korky 2021BP, which is a widely-used flapper in Toto toilets. The 2021BP is an official Toto part; in fact it's exactly the same part as Toto uses/used in many GMax toilets, just in a different box.

If you're not concerned about using an extra quart per flush, you could just put the red 2021BP in there and call it a day; it should work well, as I have it in several of mine. It is available for under $11 most places.

As to how much chain, with the trip lever in resting position, there should be basically a single link (to 2) lying sideways on top of the flapper. No less, but really not much more.

 

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[moflow]

Thanks, wjcandee! You mentioned that 2021BP replaces the G Max flapper model. Is there is a similar part number for the E Max flapper that my Eco Drake uses?

The flapper part number when it was manufactured is Toto # THU277S, per the label under the lid.

Has this flapper model been replaced by an updated E Max flapper model? Lots of contradicting information floating around the internet! I would like to get an updated E Max flapper for my Eco Drake, if one exists.

 

[Reach4]

These are adjustable:

https://www.fluidmaster.com/products/toilet/flappers/5403-universal-adjustable-3-flapper/
https://www.korky.com/products/flapper-seal-replacements/3-premium-universal-flapper
Toto-branded: https://www.korky.com/products/flapper-seal-replacements/genuine-toto-3-universal-flapper

 

[WJcandee]

Thanks, wjcandee! You mentioned that 2021BP replaces the G Max flapper model. Is there is a similar part number for the E Max flapper that my Eco Drake uses?

The flapper part number when it was manufactured is Toto # THU277S, per the label under the lid.

Has this flapper model been replaced by an updated E Max flapper model? Lots of contradicting information floating around the internet! I would like to get an updated E Max flapper for my Eco Drake, if one exists.

Yeah, the grey flapper isn't the 277S. But as you can see, there were several models of EMax flapper.

Today, they just want you to use the THU500S adjustable flapper, which is also known as the Korky 2023BP. Some people like it, others have had some challenges with it. You can also use the Korky 3060, which I have used. You set them to work with your specific toilet.

You can also find the old 277S at some local plumbing supply stores and on ebay.

Good luck!

 

[moflow]

UPDATE: I recently installed the generic Toto THU500S on my Eco Drake (the one recommended by Toto technical support AND this forum, aka Korky 2023BP.....other information says that the Korky 3060BP works too, although I'm not sure if that maintains the 1.8 gallon flush.

With the Toto THU500S now installed, all appears well. I noticed that the old flapper had a white collar on the chain; the new replacement does not. What is the reason for the chain collar, and why is it no longer needed?

Also, looking at my old flapper that came with the toilet, it was gray. If the Toto flapper colors are consistent, the replacement package suggests that gray means THU347S, not the THU277S (pink/black) that was specified on the lid of the toilet. Very strange; if the factory installed the wrong model, perhaps that explains why it leaked.

And, wow Toto has a lot of flapper models that are all very similar. The main difference appears to be slight variations in the number and size of the holes on the side, or top. The newly recommended model THU500S adjusts for various combinations via a dial setting, plus it has an optional plug to reduce the top hole. My Eco Drake 743E model does not use this plug. The "power flush gravity" models seem to need that plug.

 

[Terry]

The TOTO THU500S is not at all like the 3060BP flapper.
On many TOTO tanks the THU500S doesn't work. I just carry the 3060BP, which by the way my supplier doesn't carry, and those work every time.
The 3060BP

 

[moflow]

It looks like your post may have been cut-off in mid sentence.
The Toto tech support did say that THU500S was equivalent to Korky 3023BP.
Do you know why the white chain collar was used on the original flapper, and then was taken away for the new THU500S. I'm just curious.

 

[Terry]

I have not had good luck with this on the one-piece flush valve TOTO toilets.
The bottom is very wide and for some they don't drop down far enough to seal properly.

See how wide the bottom is? I've had them not drop down all the way on the one-piece toilets like the Ultramax.

So I stock these instead. They have worked on everything.
It's also adjustable as to how much floatation it has and therefore how much water gets used.

 

[moflow]

Thanks! I'll be sure to keep an eye on it. I never knew why the original flapper didn't seal properly after maybe a year or two in service. If you let the flush handle slam down, it would seal fine. If you didn't, it often leaked quietly. I figured it may have gotten old while the toilet was in storage for a few years before use, waiting for a renovation.
Another theory was slime would build up on the flapper, and perhaps that prevented an even sealing surface, but the issue persisted after cleaning.

Do you know why the original flapper had a white collar around the chain? And why the replacements do not?

 

[Terry]

Do you know why the original flapper had a white collar around the chain? And why the replacements do not?

The collar around the chain is prevent it from being caught under the flapper. It's kind of pointless to have though if the chain is adjusted properly.