two handle vs single handle tub/shower

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by PaulHG, Mar 30, 2006.

  1. PaulHG

    PaulHG New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Not sure if I am using correct terminology - but
    I am redoing an old bungalow bathroom.
    Current configuration for the tub/shower is seperate handles for hot and cold with a third center handle to divert for shower.

    I would like to keep this configuration in keeping with the era of the house (1929). But -- Since I was both moving and replacing the tub - this qualified as new construction and I have read somewhere that made use of this type of faucet 'illegal' and I would have to use a single hande.

    Please tell me I was misinformed.
  2. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    No where that I know .....
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,948
    Location:
    New England
    This is from the UPC 2003 code...there are other codes, but most are similar. Depends on which one your locale uses - you should find out then verify.

    420.0 Shower and Tub-Shower Combination Control Valves. Showers and tub-shower combinations in all buildings shall be provided with individual control valves of the pressure balance, thermostatic, or combination pressure balance / thermostatic mixing valve type that provide scald and thermal shock protection. These valves shall conform to ASSE 1016. Gang showers, when supplied with a single temperature-controlled water supply pipe, may be controlled by a master thermostatic mixing valve in lieu of individually controlled pressure balance, thermostatic, or combination pressure balance / thermostatic mixing valves. Handle position stops shall be provided on such valves and shall be adjusted per the manufacturer's instructions to deliver a maximum mixed water setting of 120° F (49° C). The water heater thermostat shall not be considered a suitable control for meeting this provision.
    421.0 Limitations of Hot Water in Bathtubs. The maximum hot water temperature discharged from the bathtub filler shall be 120° F.

    There are some thermostatic valves that have one knob for water volume, and a second knob for water temperature (sort of like a thermostat). But, most pressure balance only valves are single handle.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,537
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    valve

    Here, a shower only has to be pressure balanced, but tub/shower units can be two/three handles.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    MOST antiscald-type valves these days are single handle. However, many manufacturers, Delta for sure, make an anti-scald with a 2 or 3 handle look. Typically, you would not have separate hot and cold controls....you would have one handle as on/off/volume with the other handle as temp. control. These are available with or without the middle tub/shower diverter.
  6. PaulHG

    PaulHG New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Thank you for your help -
    Sounds like unless I can get different specific information from local officials -
    I'm gonna be stuck using a 'modern' single handle fixture. :(

    I realize I am living in a dream world here - but --
    It would certainly make life easier for those of us not up on all the laws - if stores were just prohibited from selling items the installation of which is illegal.
    (refering to the shelves full of two/three handle fixtures at both of the big box stores)
    Or at least post warning.

    Stepping down of my soapbox
  7. Yersmay

    Yersmay Writing, constructionDIY Member

    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    For what it's worth, I am building a shower and I, too, like the look of a two handled faucet. I found a remote pressure balance unit, made by Newport Brass... part #115. I installed it in the crawlspace under the shower. It's my understanding that the downside of these remote units are that they restrict flow... but I've tested it and it seems fine. Not a deluge, but fine. The shower isn't finished and this part certainly hasn't been tested by time. It may be worth exploring.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,537
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    faucet

    I have just learned that Danze makes a three handle pressure balanced valve.
  9. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Maybe we did not make this clear: You definitely CAN find a 2 or 3 handle valve set which is an anti-scald type system and approved by your local official.


    I understand your frustration assuming all the units sold in your local store would be legal. The strict legal term for this is "loophole"! There is a fuzzy line between what is required in new contruction/remodel vs. what can be done as a repair. Basically, the definition of remodel is fuzzy!

    Most places would allow you to replace a worn out tub/shower valve with one identical to it, even though that type would not be allowed in a remodel. SO, when does a repair become a remodel? You tell me!
  10. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    safe

    What did we all do and how many people or kids do you know who were injured before big brother got into the act.

    Too many sleazy lawyers looking to screw some one...........wow.
  11. PaulHG

    PaulHG New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Thank you for - at the very least - moral support -
    I had wondered about those valves that mounted seperate from the faucets -had even seen one listed as mounting just past the water heater and protecting the 'whole house'. Wondered how difficult they were to install and how well the worked - thanks for the review.

    I've seen one system advertised that 'fakes' a three handle arrangement.
    One handles overall water pressure - one handles temperature and one is the diverter.

    Fortunately - I still have a floor to tile - and some backerboard walls to put up before I have to make a final fauce decision -- SOO --
    I will continue researching --
    The floor (no pun intended) is very much open for suggestions.

    And thanks to those who do the hard work of providing this wonderful resource. Wish I had known of it sooner.
  12. presure balanced valves

    DELTA makes a presre balanced two handle
    tub and shower valve......I would stay away from any other pressure balanced two handle faucet......


    this law, of course if you notice , really only affects the Plumber

    the homeeowner can basicaly do anything he wants to......in his
    own home....

    I doubt you are takeing out any kind of permit, correct??


    you can pick up non pressure balanced faucets at lowes, home depot
    ect, ect...

    and they dont have signs up telling you that you MUST NOT do this when moving around your bathroom... ... they simply dont care.....


    people put in water heaters all over the country where its manditory to get a permit and they dont, ....some people dont even know to install a pressure relief valve so most now come with the valve already pre-installed to protect them from future injury.........

    thanks to Lowes and Home depot lots of laws get broken every Satruday......

    .that only the professioinals would get in trouble for...
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2006
  13. PaulHG

    PaulHG New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Actually --
    I am going all the way to the joists and studs -
    replacing a floor and moving a tub --
    Which pretty much makes this 'new construction'
    no wiggle room to call it just a repair :(
    SO -
    on the advice of a plumber friend of mine -
    For the first time in almost about 30 years of 'amateur' remodeling work -
    I actually GOT a permit --
    Actually permit(s) plumbing for the tub - building for the floor.
    In TX - as a homeowner working on my 'homestead' I was able to get the permit on my own -- but of course - inspector will still expect it to be to code.
    So far it has been a pretty painless process. Insulating under the floor is the only thing I have been asked to do I wouldnt have done anyway --
    Course -- I didnt know about the faucet issue.
  14. PaulHG

    PaulHG New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Fair warning from Glacier Bay

    Was just in HD -
    To give credit where it is due -
    Glacier Bay (their store brand?)
    Had a 3 handle fixture and the box WAS clearly labeled -
    For replacement ONLY -- Not for new construction or permitted work.
  15. PaulHG

    PaulHG New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Found some possibilities

    Both Price Pfister and Delta have discontinued their versions of these units.
    Delta 2348
    Price Pfister T02-80XP

    Was advised some of these might still be available in warehouse/surplus/wholesale outlets.
    Any suggestions?

    I found a source for the Danze 500265
    Pressure balanced three handle system
    Not familiar with them.
    Any opinions on Danze quality would be welcome.

    The source is an online seller - Dealyard.com
    Anyone familiar with them?
    Thanks
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