Toto Drake low bowl water

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by kungfuparachute, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    I just installed a Toto Drake CST744S. It appears that their is a diamond shaped ridge where the water line should be inside the bowl. When I flush, the water fills this area about 1/4 inch deep. After flushing the water line settles about an inch in 30 seconds or so. It sits at this settled line. I've read here that this indicates water settling over the weir. Because of this, there are areas of the porcelain that are exposed causing soiling issues during use. I have to clean the toilet nearly every movement. I researched this toilet extensively before purchasing and this does not seem normal to me. Can I get feedback please. Should the water sit below that ridge exposing the horizontal portions of the porcelain?

    Attached Files:

  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,129
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    1) Make sure the fill tube is directed into the overflow tube.

    2) Put a level on the floor and see if it tilts up toward the end of the bowl.

    3) Make sure you don't have anything wicking water, like dental floss.
  3. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    I checked the fill tube etc.. Seems ok. It does fill, it just drains afterward. The floor is dead on level. There isn't anything wicking it. It has been doing this since the very first fill, before I ever used the toilet. I just installed it 3 days ago. Does the level seem low for a Drake or is that normal?
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    New York, NY
    You're saying that it fills above that level and then drains down to the level you have shown, correct?

    The level you show is too low. In my versions of the same toilet, it drains down so that it just fills the area you expect it to fill.

    If it is refilling properly but then draining down to that level, there are a couple of possibilities. Most likely, the toilet is not level. You say you measured the floor, but did you measure the toilet level?

    Does it drip out right away, or over a longer time? If a longer time, it is possible that it is being siphoned by, say, another toilet. This is particularly likely if there is a toilet mounted back-to-back with this one. Proper venting could be an issue there.

    It's also conceivable that the casting is defective. I would check out the other possibilities and then call Toto customer service to see if they have any other ideas. They will be happy to replace your toilet if it is defective, although they have a very low defect rate, so that would be unusual.
  5. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    Yes, it fills about 1/4 inch above the groove, and then drains below it to the level in the picture. Maybe a 3/4 inch drop all together. That 3/4 inch is significant given the bowl design. Most of it drains in about a minute. It may continue a little over time but the majority drains in a minute. The bowl seems to be off about 1/8 inch back to front, higher in the front. That seems small compared to the amount the level drops. The floor is level and the toilet sits pretty flat on the floor all the way around.

    There is a toilet on the other side of the wall, but it's back is to an adjacent wall, not the same wall. It is, however, just on the other side of the wall.

    I have spoken to Toto customer service. I sent photos via email and they suggested I adjust the fill level. I had already explained that it is filling, just draining after. I explained it again in further detail. I have not heard back from them in 3 days. I'm not impressed.

    Is it even possible that the weir (sp?) is somehow too low and so it's losing water after the fill? I'm stumped on this one.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,129
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If you have two toilets on the same sancross of fixture cross, flushing the opposing bowl will lower the water level.
    All of the newer bowls that use a 3" flush valve will do that.

    The speed of the flush will push air and water over and force some water out of the bowl.
    A standard 2" flush valve bowl works too slowly to do that. What is in the other bathroom? And has that even been an issue. In other words, iosolating the problem, is it just this one, with nothing else being used?
  7. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    The opposite toilet is an older Eljer 1.6gpf with a standard flush valve. The Toto drains without the other toilet being flushed. I just tried flushing the Eljer and it seems to have no effect on the Toto water level. The toilet I just used the Toto to replace was an old water hog, but I didn't seem to have problems with the bowl draining. I'm not sure it would have been as obvious if that bowl was draining because the water level and bowl design were very different.

    Just to be clear, the bowl settles, but then seems to stay at the settled level. It does not continue to drain over time. I haven't seen it much lower than in the picture.

    I tried flushing the Eljer and it also settles a bit after the bowl fills. I assumed a little settling was normal, just not this much.

    I also flushed the Toto and it did not effect the Eljer on the other side.
  8. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    I'm adding difficult to plunge to my frustration with this toilet. A round plunger doesn't form a seal in the bowl. One week and it already clogged.

    Toto customer service is still jerking me around. They could at least tell me they aren't going to help me. They just keep saying they'll get back to me.

    Sorry guys, I don't see the draw to the toilet or the company. I'm very frustrated with how this turned out.
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,129
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    What happens if you slowly pour water into the bowl?
    How high a level can you get the water in the bowl, and does it stay there, or does the level drop?

    Put the plunger in with water in bowl, and after a series of short, quick strokes, pull up until everything sucks down. Usually people do big strokes up and down. Using that method, some blockages won't move.

    [​IMG]
    I use this with "all" brands.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  10. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    If I pour slowly it fills to about 1/4 inch above the groove, which is where it fills to after it flushes. No matter how much I pour that's all the higher it gets. Then it drains to the level in the photo within a few minutes. It seems to drain a little more slowly then after a flush, but within a few minutes it settles. I didn't use any other toilets in the house during that time.

    I looked down my roof vent and it's clear.

    Thank you for your replies.
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The reason you don't like the flush is that it isn't starting with enough water in the bowl. Amazing what a difference it makes. There are a lot of posts on here about this issue, usually because the refill isn't adjusted properly. (Yours is, so that's not the issue here.) These toilets are actually finely-tuned machines and need the right amount of water to start with.

    Now, on to your problem. Three possibilities: the toilet isn't level front-to-back, something is wicking or sucking the water from the bowl, or the top bend (where the weir is) has a defect that is causing water to run out below the proper level of the weir. I suppose you could scope it for a defect, but if you're not happy with Toto customer service, I would just call them and tell them that you have eliminated everything about the installation which could have caused the problem, and therefore you believe the bowl to be defective and you want them to send you a new bowl under warranty -- unless they have another suggestion to check for. That will get their attention, and maybe some other suggestions we haven't made here.

    Don't give up on the Drake. It's a great toilet. Try replacing with a new bowl (the tank sounds fine) under warranty. If the problem still exists, then it's something to do with the installation -- like I said, level or suction being most likely. The latter less likely because the problem happens consistently every time. You also might just try loosening the closet bolts and shimming the toilet in the rear a bit, more forward, then seeing how it works. You still might need a new bowl, but if you can get it reliably-full to start, you'll have a sense of how it should be working. (If that does solve the problem, you will need to reset the toilet with a new wax ring, because you will probably break the seal when you move the toilet.)
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  12. kungfuparachute

    kungfuparachute New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    MN
    wjcandee, Thanks for your response. I'll try shimming it just to make sure that's not the issue. How far do you think I can shim it before I break the seal on the wax ring and have to reset it?
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,831
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Water "drains down" almost instantly. It does NOT take a "minute or so" to find its proper elevation, therefore the water is seeping out, probably due to a crack in the interior porcelain material.
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    New York, NY
    When overfilled, mine takes maybe 20 seconds to find the level. I wasn't taking his "minute" literally; I was thinking it was a similar time-frame to what I experience with an overfill. I think his point was that it's relatively-quick, not something that happens over the course of the hour.

    Nevertheless, I always defer to HJ's opinions, which are born of decades of experience and a keen intellect.
  15. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    New York, NY
    As a general rule, you want to assume that if you move it at all, the wax seal is going to break. You might be able to get away with a little movement, but how much is really an unknown -- depends on the specific installation, unfortunately. Good news -- it's not a big deal to reset it.
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