Toto Drake CST744EG#01- What am I seeing? Is it safe to use?

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Jdjd

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Purchased this same toilet a few years ago. Just purchased a new one made by Toto in Mexcio. When I received it, there is a blue and white glazed coating on the underside.

It looks like this was added after the bowl was cast. My concern is that the underside of the toilet was damaged and then fixed by someone. I don't want to install the toilet and find later it is then leaking from these spots. Not to mention resulting water damage to the ceiling below.

I called Toto and talked with technical support (sent them the same pictures). After checking with others in the deepartment, they could not explain what it was. They said it was possibly placed there to relieve pressure on the casting. They authorized a new one from the web site I purchased it from. Guess what - same problem.

So an unknow substance and Toto USA does not have a clue what it is.

Any thoughts on what it is and how safe it is to use this bowl?

The last thing I want to do is install it, replace the ceiling under it, and 6 months down the line find I have a problem with it, and now tproblems with the new ceiling.

Here are the pictures of the toilet.

Thanks!

Pic 1 - Drake purchased ~1 year ago, bottom looks ok

Pic 2 - Drake just purchased - note blue and white ceramic like covering

Pic 3 and 4 - Close-ups of blue and white ceramic like covering
 

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WJcandee

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Maybe it's something that either leaked onto or was intentionally added by the online company that the poster ordered from. Did he try calling them and asking them about it? If he got two from the same company with that stuff on it, it stands to reason that it's more likely to come from them...
 

Jdjd

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Yes, I contacted the online company. They did not have a clue. While I did not ask them, I expect this is the way it came from mfg. They would have no reason to add some type of substance to the under side of the bowl.

So it is back to Toto. I've asked them to look into it further, including calling their mfg. in Mexico.

A bit disconcerting. Right now, I'm reluctant to use it.
 

Jdjd

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I called Toto today. They are and have been very helpful, but ...

I was told that this was done during testing in the mfg. process. I asked if they tested all toilet bowls and was told yes. I then explained that the previous 2 I purchased did not have this on the bottom. I also mentioned Terry's comments of never seeing it with thousamds of installs (

Terry, I did not mention your name or this web site.

In summary, I agree with what the Toto rep said, that the blue dye is from some type of testing. But why test on the underside of the bowl? I was told I could test it myself by putting some water in it and letting it sit for a few hours to see if it leaks. I noted that would be okay, but what happens after it I put up a new ceiling under it in the livingroom, and is flushed 15-20 times a day, and fails in the future ...

The long and short is I think this Toto plant had a bad run. Some of the bowls were defective. As a result, they put some type of white ceramic glaze on the underside and then tested it by pouring a blue dye over it. Or they poured the blue dye down the bowl, found it leaked, fixed the leak with the glaze and did not first wipe off the blue dye.

Either way, I think this was a defective run and I got a fixed, but previously defective bowl. Kind of like ordering a new laptop only to find you received a re-manufactured one.

I've escalated it to Toto management.

The saga continues ...
 

Sir John

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Hi, jdjd long time lurker first post, I too ordered a Drake (ADA 1.6) from an online company a couple of months ago and it also had the same sealant type blue and white glaze in the exact same areas where your photos show.It also was made in Mexico, I thought it was part of the manufacturing process and installed it and has been up and running now with no problems. Now I am wondering the same as you if these toilets aren't some kind of factory rejects IMG_3003.JPG and these online companies are getting them at a reduced cost..Thank you for following up on this
 

Jdjd

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Update

After investigating the issue, a manager at Toto got back to me. What I was told is:

- Toto has manufacturing facilities across the globe.
- They all perform some type of vacuum test on the bowl. Not sure what this does.
- The manufacturing facility in Mexico is the ONLY one that uses blue dye during their bowl testing.
- My contact could not answer why there was a white glaze on the underside of the bowl at both ends.
- The Toto head of quality engineering told him that there was nothing wrong with the process used or the bowl.
- My manager contact said they were no longer going to use this blue dye process in the Mexico facility.
- The quality engineering manager said the bowl was safe to use.

Questions I would certainly like answered are:

- Why did this single manufacturing facility, and only this one, use a different process?
- What prompted them to use it?
- Why was the white glaze put on the underside of the bowl in 2 places? Possibly to resolve a structural defect?
- Why are they now going to stop this process that they have been using for some period of time?

and

- Why do I feel like I am getting a remanufactured bowl due to some issue Toto Mexico had with their manufacturing run?

My not being satisfied, this manager said he would ask the head of quality engineering to call me.

A question for the forum -

This toilet will be installed on the second floor of my house, followed by a new ceiling under it in the living room. Given what I have learned, I don't feel overly comfortable with this bowl.

I think Toto is glazing over the issue (pun intended).

What are other folks thoughts?
 

WJcandee

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From the beginning, I thought that this was a mountain out of a molehill. I personally think you are way overthinking this and being more than a bit obsessive. But it's your house, and I understand and appreciate that you want to keep it safe.

But I think you have your answer.

I think Toto deserves credit for putting you in touch with people at high levels of the company, and bending over backwards to make you happy. They also took your observation and changed a procedure as a result. That's a good company.

I think they are "glazing over" nothing. It looks like a stain, and apparently it is a stain from the test dye.

And Toto wouldn't be trying to seal a crack with glaze. These guys would just reject the bowl if it had a crack.

If they said it's safe to use, I have every confidence that it's safe to use. They have the best quality control in the business. They have the most responsive customer service in the business, as good or better than Delta. They could be on the hook if something goes wrong. They are always happy to replace stuff if it is warranted, so they're not trying to save $10 to avoid replacing something.

I would go ahead and install the thing already.
 

Jdjd

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wjcandee,

Thanks, I appreciate your comments; you have made some very good points.

Yes, I may be guilty of overthinking it. If I had not purchased 2 Drake's years ago without this problem, I would not have thought anything of this one and just installed it. Hovever, having had my living room ceiling trashed by water leakage, having taken the bathroom down to the studing, and redid it, I'm just being cautious.

Again thanks for your openness and comments.

Topic closed.
 

Jadnashua

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FWIW, it makes it much faster and easier to spot a problem when you use a color to point it out. As long as the test doesn't show an actual fault, and the color is only in an area that is normally covered, personally, I don't see it as a problem. They may use something like a florescent dye elsewhere, but that requires a blacklight, and that presents safety issues to the user requiring eye protection. Speed and ease of use, along with safety help to keep production costs down and produce better products. That test may be performed before the final glazing since it would not be cost effective to test for leaks after you've spent the time and money to add the glaze and refire it after it was originally taken from raw to the state where it could be tested. Until it is first fired, it is soft and has little strength, so it could not be tested. Adding the glaze is the final step before final assembly.
 
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