Toto Aquia II installation roadblock

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by argh, May 26, 2014.

  1. argh

    argh New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    As some may remember, I purchased a CST416M near the end of December last year. Finally, today it gets to be installed but there is a problem - it does not fit by half an inch. After tiling, the rough in is 11". Seeing how everything has already been tiled over, what are my options?
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    What size is your drain pipe? You can usually fudge 1/4", but you need twice that to make it fit. The outlet of the toilet is in the order of 2-1/8", and the drain is either 3 or 4", so there is a little leeway - it doesn't have to be perfectly centered, but making the seal gets harder and less reliable if it isn't. See what Terry has to say or one of the other plumbers. There may be hope.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    To the wall? or to the floor molding?
    The rough measurement is from center of drain to wall, where the tank is.

    Normally with 3", you can squeeze 3/8" by shifting. A 4" drain give you even more room to shift.

    Or, you may be looking at the CST412MF.10 which comes with the 10" bowl.
  4. argh

    argh New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California

    [​IMG]

    11" to the wall, 4" drain. Any toilet between 10-11" would work is what I was told.

    Would the tank from my CST416M work on the CST412MF.10 bowl?
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    The nominal space behind the toilet is 0.5", so that means your at least 0.5" short with only 11". But, as Terry indicated, you can shift the mounting of the toilet some, especially on a 4" drain and flange and probably make it work but the tank would be against the wall. That's not catastrophic, but depending on the humidity levels and air circulation, maybe not ideal. Depending on where in CA you are, it may not be an issue at all.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    We would make that work on the 4" drain.
    That picture looks like a 4x3 drain, which at most gives you 3/8" shift.

    Does that wall tile at the floor lever go up the wall where the tank is?
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    No such thing as an 11" toilet. There are toilets designed to work on a 10" rough in. There are toilets designed to work on a 12" rough in. Yours is the latter. That said, most toilets (but not all) allow for some room behind them. Yours allows 1/2"-ish. You need to find another half-inch. Terry says he would make it work; I assume that this is because that if the toilet is perfectly-centered over that four-inch pipe, there is a little less than an inch all the way around between the edges of the outflow hole from the toilet and the edge of the 4" pipe. Accordingly, he can "cheat" it forward a half-inch or more over the hole. But it may take a pro with experience in doing this to get that seal just right.

    The two toilets use tanks with different model numbers; although the spec sheet shows them as being slightly-different in width, I'm not sure that matters. You might call Toto and ask them if the one can fit on the other bowl -- the number is 1-888-295-8134 if you need it. They are very nice and usually the rep can put you in touch with someone who knows the answer.

    Best outcome, frankly, is to see if you can't just install the one you have by positioning it a little further forward over the hole.
  8. argh

    argh New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    The wall tile does indeed cover the tank area.

    I found a couple places selling the CST412MF.10 at a great price, however the lead time is anywhere from 3 to 12 weeks. While I really don't want to, I may have to look for an alternative or at least keep my options open. What would be the runner-up to the CST412MF.10?
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I use the TOTO Vespin II, CST474CEFG with a 10" Unifit

    Or TOTO makes the CST744EF.10

    Or American Standard makes a Cadet with 10" space save tank.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    If all he needs is another 1/2" and he's got a 4-inch pipe, he can just do the install by sliding it forward.

    Terry, is there somewhere on the site where we walk people through how to "cheat" it forward 1/2"? We talk about it all the time, but I haven't see where we actually say how to do it.
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,234
    Location:
    IL
    I suspect you did not fully understood reply #6. But if you want to pursue a 10 inch rough in toilet, that would be a no brainer. You may want to take the easy way. You may want to aspire higher.

    When you say "11 inches" that seems to imply that you are not bringing the available resources to the table. Was that 11.00 inches? or 10.9 or 11.125?

    Maybe I am being too subtle. What I am suggesting is that you measure more precisely. What is the accurate dimension to the wall of the center of the flange to the wall? What is the actual dimension of center of the closet bolt holes to the wall of your existing CST416M toilet when placed against the wall. What this determines is how close are you, and I don't mean to the nearest inch. Then, after having the best measurements available, maybe ask how Terry might accomplish what he said in #6.
  12. argh

    argh New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Skirted is a must have for this new toilet, so the Vespin II is the natural winner.

    Just to be sure, here is the parts list:
    • CT474CEFG
    • ST454E#01
    • TSU01W.10R (toto literature says TSU01W.10)

    I'm getting it in cotton white (#01).
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    IF the bolt holes in the stock flange won't allow you to cheat it forward enough, you could install a repair flange on the existing one and get it so you have bolts that would work. Or, you might just drill some new holes and install some hanger bolts (wood screw on one end, straight threads on the other) to hold the toilet to the flange. If Terry says it can be made to work successfully on an 11" RI, I'd believe him. Now, I do have and like my Vespin (and older one), and with a 10" RI, you'd have 1.75" behind the toilet with the 10" Unifit adapter and you could probably cheat that backwards a little to give you a smaller gap.
  14. argh

    argh New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    The CST416M I no longer have, so it's looking like the Vespin II, which will hopefully arrive a lot sooner.
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I prefer the Vespin II.
    More water in the bowl, comes with Sanagloss.
    It also comes with a taller bowl, which I like.
  16. MGJ

    MGJ New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    GA
    Another angle: My Toto Drake is a 12" rough-in, but it has a >1" space behind it, which effectively makes it an 11" rough-in.
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    The only safe way to ensure things will be guaranteed to fit is if your flange rough-in is to industry specs. The manufacturers can change their design at any time and what may have worked before may no longer work. There is no industry standard on how much room there should be behind a toilet that gives you a little bit of wiggle room. And, on a piece to piece, it can vary (all of the specs say nomimal - it can vary some - but, Toto's production method has some of the tightest tolerances in the industry so variations are usually small). The only real guarantee you have is if you have a true 12" rough-in, any 12" rough-in toilet should fit, or the toilet itself is defective.
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Drake will drop right in there.
    Or you can pick up the CST412MF.10 if you still want an Aquia. That would be out from the wall by 1.5"
  19. argh

    argh New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    My Vespin II was flushed for the first time today, and I got a shorter version of the dreaded water dripping noise. Only a problem because I read about it beforehand and thought I was safe since it had supposedly been fixed years ago.
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    It's fixed on mine. Either that or I don't wait around listening for sounds after I've used it. I'm pretty busy.
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