Toilet Ring Leaking in Rental House

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KineticoUser

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It seems strange, but I've only had problems with my present tenant and not previously. There are 3 bathrooms, 2 upstairs and one on the first floor. The floors are wood, and there is a crawl space under the first floor. All toilet flanges are cast iron. The upstairs bathroom with a tile floor is more reliable than the other two that have vinyl floor coverings. I've always used wax rings, experimenting with standard, double height and reinforced with a plastic flange. The other upstairs toilet ring has been replaced about every other year, while the lower floor is replaced yearly (usually when it is cold outside). I'm thinking of starting to use non-wax rings and would like your opinion on which is best. There are 4 available in my area:
SaniSeal http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toilet-Gasket-Flexible-Waxless-Seal-Universal-Fit-BL01/203564758
Danco's Perfect Seal http://www.homedepot.com/p/NEXT-by-Danco-Perfect-Seal-Toilet-Wax-Ring-with-Bolts-10826X/206393853
Korky's Wax-Free Gasket https://www.lowes.com/pd/Korky-Wax-Free-Gasket-Toilet-Wax-Ring/50150240
Fluidmaster Better Than Wax https://www.lowes.com/pd/Fluidmaster-Better-Than-Wax-Wax-Free-Gasket-Toilet-Ring/50258405
I'm leaning toward the SaniSeal, due to its larger size, but I'd like feedback from others who have used non-wax rings.
 

Jadnashua

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The magic key to keeping the seal on a toilet is first, having the toilet flange where it was designed to be (on top of the finished floor although there are millions that work reliably that are not!), and second, ensuring that the toilet is shimmed so that it cannot rock. That second point is probably where you've failed. A proper install should last a lifetime.

The missing link is to first set the toilet in place without wax, see if it rocks...add shims so that it is rock solid, then lift, place the wax, then push the toilet down until it is seated. Do not use the bolts to pull the toilet down, use your weight. If the toilet can rock, the wax is not resilient, and you will break the seal when it rocks back after being compressed. In this manner, some of the waxless seals might compensate for movement, but it would depend on how much it moved in the process.

If the toilet often clogs, and the toilet flange is recessed beneath the top of the floor, aggressive plunging can blow out the wax seal. That's not normally possible if the flange is where it is designed to be. TO overcome that, Terry suggests using one wax ring with a plastic horn on top, and a regular wax ring beneath...the horn helps to reinforce things while keeping the wax in place and not squishing into the path of the outlet.
 

Terry

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I have used the Sani-Seal, and it has worked fine. I've looked at some of the others you listed, but the rubber looks to be harder and less able to adjust. Maybe someone else has a comment on them.
 

KineticoUser

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Unfortunately, the floor, especially in the bottom bath flexes, whereas the cast iron flange doesn't, so even if the toilet is perfectly shimmed there will be movement over time. The non-wax rings can move with that movement, but once wax is depressed it doesn't spring back. Even my son (who is an active aerospace engineer and holder of many patents) agrees wax isn't the long-term answer. Terry, thank you for your thumbs up on the Sani-Seal.
 

KineticoUser

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He's amazing when it comes to advanced physics, math and engineering, but like Einstein, the simple things go over his head. He knows nothing about plumbing and can't even recite the months of the year in order. He can tell me when something won't work, but what is simple to him is complex to me, and what is simple to me is complex to him. Don't ask me to explain; it's too far above my pay grade. People go to you for your expertise, me for my expertise and him for his expertise. I'm sure any of us would be overwhelmed by what the other does, but no one is an expert at everything. And that brings me to your question. Though I designed and built my own home and am a volunteer crew leader building homes for veterans through Habitat For Humanity, I do not have the day-to-day experience you have with the latest innovations in the area of plumbing. You are more likely to have experimented with the options I gave (or others that might be more effective), so I respect your expertise and reach out to you for your recommendations. When you feel challenged with any of your relationships, feel free to reach out to me and pick my brain.
 

FullySprinklered

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I make jokes. It gets me through the day. My son just passed all his tests, etc to get his architects's license. I haven't seen him build so much as a doghouse yet. Personally, I've done simple electrical repairs in the homes of half a dozen electrical engineers. It's a different job.
While I'm at it, there's probably a couple of very bright and capable people on here who wish I were more of a gentleman with my postings, but if a group of gentlemen built an 1100 sqft Jim Walter home, it would cost $750,000. There you go.
Oh, and fix the floor.
 
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KineticoUser

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I understand that. For the most part, my son leaves the construction to others and just focuses on the theories, computations and programming. He's more likely to design something that builds itself. I'll occasionally get him to give me a hand, but for the most part I'm the one who repairs his car and does all the work on my property. I like to see myself as a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none. There is no way I could afford to buy the home I built for myself, had someone else built it. I've always preferred learning how to do things myself rather than chase the almighty dollar so I could hire others to do the work. By the way, don't expect to see a hammer in your son's hand... unless you can talk him into volunteering at Habitat.
 

FullySprinklered

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I understand that. For the most part, my son leaves the construction to others and just focuses on the theories, computations and programming. He's more likely to design something that builds itself. I'll occasionally get him to give me a hand, but for the most part I'm the one who repairs his car and does all the work on my property. I like to see myself as a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none. There is no way I could afford to buy the home I built for myself, had someone else built it. I've always preferred learning how to do things myself rather than chase the almighty dollar so I could hire others to do the work. By the way, don't expect to see a hammer in your son's hand... unless you can talk him into volunteering at Habitat.
I hear you, bro.
 

Gary Swart

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I'd start by finding out why the floor flexes. A floor should be rock solid. You have a structural problem, not a wax ring problem.
 

KineticoUser

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I understand that, but a $10 replacement part beats the time, money and effort that would be required to reconstruct the floors. I put concrete supports under the lower bath, but there is still a slight flex. This is an old house, so some allowances need to be made for that, unless a person is made out of money.
 

KineticoUser

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After replacing the ring on the downstairs toilet, I discovered the problem was the fill valve, not the rings. Fill valves have been replaced and all is well. I'll have to order replacement seals, as these go out regularly.

Replacing the ring with a Sani-Seal was a simple, easy process.
 

Terry

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korky-waxfree-seal.jpg


Korky WaxFREE Seal Kit

fluidmaster-betterthanwax.jpg


Fluidmaster Better Than Wax

danco-perfectseal.jpg


Next Danco Perfect Seal

sani_seal_package.jpg


Here are a few non-wax seals in addition to the SaniSeal
 
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KineticoUser

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Thank you, but I am very happy with the Sani-Seal. I now need to order some Fluidmaster 242 seals for the fill valves.
 
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