Toilet flange- where does it begin/end?

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1st-time plumbing

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I'm remodeling my bathroom and installing new tile. The problem is when I removed the toilet, I discovered a mound of what looks like plumbers putty. After chiseling away the extra putty and wax, I finally saw the flange but now I cant remove it to replace the broken bolts or even the flange itself. It appears the flange may be welded to a lead pipe? I should also note that the flange sits higher than the tile and was not bolted to the floor. I NEED suggestions on how to go about tackling this. PLEASE HELP!
Extra information: I think the flange is cast iron and the bolts are broken and rusted to the flange. Looks like the area where flange was welded to pipe has cracked at the seam on one side. There is also a bulge in the pipe at the top.
 

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Reach4

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I am not a plumber or even an advanced handyman. That closet flange would have been attached with poured melted lead.
  1. How high is the top of the flange from the floor surface? If not too high to let the toilet sit without rocking, I would look for a solution that leaves what you have in place. A skilled plumber would probably be able to replace the flange without messing up the lead pipe.
  2. These rusted-in bolts -- are those the closet bolts-- the ones that would normally extend through the toilet base? I would think that you could tap those loose, or if that doesn't work, drill them out. The old closet bolts may be brass, and the new ones will be I hope.
  3. If the flange is not too high, you could drill some holes in the tile, add some shims to take the compressive load, and add new screws.
  4. That bubble in the side of the pipe. Hmm. Can you press that in?
 

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Thanks for the input.

1. So the top of the flange is about 3/4 of an inch above the tile. The toilet has never rocked and I plan on reinstalling original toilet. Also there was about half an inch of plumbers putty and wax mix on top of the flange.
2. Yes, they are the closet bolts.
3. I will be removing the current tile (in picture) and installing new tile. Is there anything that I could do while the tile is out to help with load?
4. I was hoping I wouldn't have to touch the bubble. I don't want it to break.
I would like to leave what I can but I just don't want there to be problems in the future.
 

Reach4

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1. That is pretty high!
2. I really suspect that you will be able to remove those old ones without too much trouble.
3. Thicker tile? :) Note that porcelain tile is very hard do drill. So maybe you could stick shims cut to the purpose and screw in your new floor bolts before adding the new tile. Then tile to but not under the flange. I am just thinking it over. My thoughts in this case are not based on experience.
 

Terry

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You are redoing the tile, I would consider replacing the lead bend.
Replace the bend, and the wood subfloor before putting things back. Old lead can crack, and if you ever run a closet auger near it, it can poke a hole through it.
Normally the lead is for a short distance and inserts into a cast iron hub which has been leaded in.
 

hj

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None of the photos are close up enough to tell us what KIND of pipe, you have, but from the appearance in a couple of them it appears you do NOT have a "lead pipe". (a cast iron flange could not have been "leaded" to a lead bend)
 

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None of the photos are close up enough to tell us what KIND of pipe, you have, but from the appearance in a couple of them it appears you do NOT have a "lead pipe". (a cast iron flange could not have been "leaded" to a lead bend)

I'm pretty sure its lead(it bends really easily). There is a cast iron hub about 2 feet down. Here are closer pictures of the pipe. I thought the flange was cast iron but maybe its brass? Not sure since its so dirty/corroded.
 

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Terry

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It looks like lead with a brass ring on top.
You can also, with a bit of work, remove the lead and install new pipe from the cast iron hub below.
 

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I removed the lead back to the cast iron hub and discovered a brass ferrule. I have read that I can use a transition coupling to attach a piece of PVC. I bought a piece of pvc and a 4 in. X 4 in. coupling from pvc to metal. My DWV PVC seems to measure 4.5 in outside diameter while the brass is about 4 in. Will the different sizes of pipe effect the couplings ability to prevent leak?

I'm not sure if I can remove the brass ferrule as I do not own a torch to melt the lead that is used to secure the brass to the cast iron.
 
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