Toilet bowl doesn't completley fill with water.

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by kolodziej_m, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. kolodziej_m

    kolodziej_m New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    IL
    I have a Toto one piece toilet. After flushing, the bowl doesn't fill all the way with the water. The water fill is about 20%. I have to double flush handle (flush once, then just before bowl is empty, flush again. Then it'll fill about 80%. When I have guests use the toilet, I have do this method, because there will always be paper left lying in the low water fill in bowl. The flapper closes immediately, not allowing a sufficient amount to fill the bowl. I changed the flapper but it still closes immediately (too fast). Thanks for any advice. Stan
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    14,929
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    It sounds like the fill tube from the fill valve is pointed into the tank and not the overflow tube.
    This refills the bowl after a flush.

    [​IMG]

    It should look like this after the fix.
  3. kolodziej_m

    kolodziej_m New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    IL
    No, the fill tube is in clipped on and pointed into the overflow tube. Could it be a defective power gravity valve?
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    14,929
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You can install a Korky MaxPerformance valve which allows for bowl refill adjustment.
    There must be something wrong, because we put these things in all day long and they're always perfect.
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    New York, NY
    The flapper is supposed to close almost immediately. Isn't isn't the flapper that fills the bowl. It's water from the fill valve that flows down the overflow riser. If the tube is properly pointed in there, then as Terry says, the fill valve may not be discharging enough water into the overflow riser through the refill hose. A Korky MaxPerformance 528MP fill valve with the silver cap [NOT the Korky with the white, blue, or red caps] would allow you to vary how much water goes through the refill hose. Available at Lowe's and other fine retailers: http://www.lowes.com/pd_336988-868-528MPK_0__?Ntt=528mpk&UserSearch=528mpk&productId=3284948&rpp=32 It could be that someone replaced the original fill valve with one that does not put enough water through the refill tube. (Older toilets use a fixed 20% refill ratio. Toto Power Gravity and GMax toilets need 40%. More recent Totos use between 28% and 34%.) Older generic fill valves are fixed at 20%. The 528MP lets you adjust betwee 0 and 40%. (The refill ratio is the percentage of the water flowing out of the wall that goes into the bowl through the refill hose as opposed to into the tank.)

    One other thought. Is the water level in the tank high enough at the start of the flush? It should be about 1/2" to 1/4" below the top of the overflow riser when the fill valve shuts off. This is important because the amount of water that goes into the bowl for refill through the refill hose obviously is determined by how long the fill valve runs. If it doesn't fill the tank enough, it doesn't run long enough, and thus it doesn't fill the bowl enough. Make sure that the water level at shutoff in the tank is as I described.

    As to the flapper closing too fast, attached is a video of a Toto toilet. That's how long the flapper is supposed to stay open. No longer. Just for comparison. Also see how the water runs from the refill hose into the overflow riser? And how high the water level is on the overflow riser before the start of the flush? And how the water runs into the overflow riser the whole time the tank is refilling. Hope this helps.

    Come back with any more questions.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014 at 5:37 PM
  6. kolodziej_m

    kolodziej_m New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    IL
    Thanks. I'm going to Lowes to buy A Korky MaxPerformance 528MP fill valve with the silver cap. I'll get back to you. Stan
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Location:
    New York, NY
    Great. Here's a video from Korky on how to install it:





    One difference on how you will adjust the refill is that you won't start with a pencil mark based on the previous refill, because your toilet is never fully-refilling. So...

    Here's my recommendation: You need to determine the "natural" level of the water in the bowl, the level to which it settles. (A toilet bowl is actually a bit like a regular bowl with a baffle in it; you can only see the part on this side of the baffle, but there is another part of the "bowl" behind the baffle, and when it overflows the water runs down the trapway. When overfilled a smidge, the extra water in the bowl will run over the weir of the trap and down the trapway through the outlet into the drain pipe. In the old days, toilets would always overfill the bowl, and the extra, wasted, water would just flow over the weir as it settled to the natural level.) Get a pitcher or bucket of water, and slowly pour it into the bowl. The bowl will fill up to and beyond its natural level. Let it settle a moment. NOW, mark that spot because that's where you want the fill valve to fill it to.

    Cutaway diagram of a toilet. You can see what happens if you overfill the bowl a little. And you can see why it doesn't flush well if underfilled before the start of the flush. It has to fill up, then start the siphon that empties the bowl.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014 at 5:37 PM
  8. kolodziej_m

    kolodziej_m New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    IL
    Success! Yes, you were correct. The installation, of the Korky MaxPerformance 528MP fill valve with the silver cap, is working. The bowl is now filling with water. I also asked my wife not to use the blue drop in bowl cleaner. Thank You Very Much.
  9. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
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    Fantastic! Such a relief when stuff works properly again, isn't it? Glad we could help!
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,133
    Location:
    IL
    The Fluidmaster and Kaboom bleach cleaners are great, because they go in series with the bowl-refill tube and dump the chemical down the overflow to the bowl. The Kaboom can be reloaded, not only from the product they sell, with a slow-disolve swimming pool or spa chlorine or bromine product. They put no chemical into the tank water.
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,929
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    And when installed with these toilets, may not fill the bowl.
    Which is what the original complaint was about.
    Those would be nice if they didn't restrict the bowl refill.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,133
    Location:
    IL
    Good point... In my case, I used a pinch clamp in series to further reduce that flow for one of my 3.5 GPF toilets. But with a 1.x GPF fill, which has a much faster fill, then that could be a problem. Maybe some of those valves with an adjustable refill may have enough range to fill such a toilet while compensating for a bit more back pressure.
  13. kolodziej_m

    kolodziej_m New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    IL
    I replaced valve with the Korky MaxPerformance valve. You were correct. Now it is perfect. Thank You.
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