Stuck Moen Cartridge

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by sabell, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Furd

    Furd Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    Wet side of Washington State
    I agree with Basement_Lurker, Moen DOES make good products, I'll take a Moen over a Delta every time. BUT, the Moen single-lever cartridge does NOT play well with hard water. If you have hard water you need to pull these cartridges at least yearly, clean them up (soaking in vinegar or CLR) re-grease them with plumber's grease and re-install. If you don't the cartridge WILL seize in the faucet body, no doubt about it. If you have very hard water you may need to do the maintenance more than once a year.
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    If you had called a plumber BEFORE you broke the stem he would have been able to remove it in about 30 seconds. Now he has to remove that broken stem BEFORE he can remove the rest of it in 30 seconds. Keep digging at the faucet and you will eventually get to the point where you will have to replace the entire faucet. I have had MANY customers do that, even after I tell them to stop about 2 minutes before they reach their level of incompetence.

    [​IMG]
    one

    [​IMG]

    two

    [​IMG]
    three
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2011
  3. chatemjr

    chatemjr New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Canton, MA
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2011
  4. alwayssilver

    alwayssilver New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I had the main brass section of the cartridge break off inside the body. Luckily, I had the Moen 1222 plastic case cartridge. Not having to have done this previously, it was a daunting task. The solution shown in the photo worked like a charm! You do have to drill in to the metal core to get a bite. Don't forget to use wood as a support when you are pulling out the cartridge; without the wood to spread the load, you will crack any tile around the opening. I used a small breaker bar with the wood as the fulcrum point. Had to reposition a couple times to keep the core coming out straight, but this really worked.
    This solution is only for the dire instance where the stem breaks off and you can not get to it with a puller (if you have one) but could be used in place of the puller although I never have tried this.
    Good luck and good plumbing.
  5. alwayssilver

    alwayssilver New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Sorry, pushed the wrong button.
    By the way, don't forget to lubricate the new cartridge as you put it in the valve.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Comments about how to remove a 1200/1224 stem, and the tools to do it, are IRRELEVENT when the question is about at 1222 stem. They are completely DIFFERENt animals.
  7. ineltek

    ineltek New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Oconomowoc, WI
    What is shown in the 3.jpg picture??


    I know the first two all too well. What is shown in the third picture?? Looks interesting. Does it help with the Posi Temp valves??
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Plumberjim; Apparently you do NOT repair many Moen Positemp valves, because those tools and ANY information relative to a 1200/1225 core is completely irrelevent. I removed a broken 1222 core the other day and when it is done "correctly" it takes about 2 minutes. If not done correctly it can take hours and maybe result in a new valve being installed. You CANNOT rotate the cartridge because it has tabs on top and bottom to PREVENT rotation, and now that you have broken the stem, you do not have anything to grab onto.I have tried to SHOW plumbers how to remove a 1222 with a broken stem and they cannot understand it so I do not think it would help to try to describe it with any success. The Positemp valve does NOT come apart so nothing that has to access the inside, such as the last photo, will work. As to WHY it goes bad in a year, the pressure balancer is a "shuttle" that moves back and forth, but if you do NOT use the water periodically, it will get stuck in one spot. IF you remove the cartridge without damaging it, you can tap the cartridge on the floor a couple of times until you feel the spool moving when you shake it, then put the cartridge back in, making sure you have the "hot and cold" sides properly aligned for you installation.
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  9. Twin

    Twin New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Missoui
    I recently found my Moen kitchen sink faucet had been leaking, allowing water to soak through the floor and into the basement ceiling. After some study of Moen products online I determined the faucet has the 1225 cartridge and I found that, for $25, a local hardware would hand me a brand new cartridge of MOEN manufacture. All I had to do then was remove the old cartridge and install the new.

    The lime crusts were thick and so I soaked the mess with some acid designed to clean lime buildup on toilet bowls. That gave me opportuntity to give a try to removing the old cartridge. The instructions (a series of cartoons) did show the removal of a staple like retainer. It was located on the back side of the cartridge and I had little room to work. But, with a lot of prying the retainer did come out and the cartridge then came up easily.

    After cleaning the cartridge holder, and carefully following the cartoon instructions, I put the new cartridge in place and then tried to lock it with the retaining staple. Remember that the staple was difficult to remove and impossible for me to get it all back from whence it came. Eventually I got about half the legs in place, jammed solid. The part of the staple hanging out prevented the installation of the faucet handle so I used a file and filed off the protruding part of the staple, installed the handle and turned the water on. The handle would move the cartridge left, right, up and down. The water flow remained a slow flow of warm water which made no reponse to handle position, open or closed. I turned off the water supply once more.

    The next day I went to a different hardware and bought a new faucet (definitely not a MOEN!), installed it and all is good.

    I think Moen should provide better instructions plus, a replacment staple retainer as the old one just wouldn't stand up to being put back in place. For my part, I'll avoid Moen. At this point Delta is my favorite as it is easy to replace the wearing parts and they don't cost much. Good luck to all that have Moen.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; The handle would move the cartridge left, right, up and down. The water flow remained a slow flow of warm water which made no reponse to handle position, open or closed

    That makes no sense at all since the handle controls the position of the stem openings. The clip could have been installed from the front, and since Moen does not know WHICH faucet you will install the stem in, they do NOT know which clip you would need. Plumbers do NOT have the problems you had.
  11. DavidSeon

    DavidSeon New Member

    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    MS Gulf Coast
    Moentrol Cartridge Removal

    :eek:

    Installing a Moen 3570 valve.
    Moen 3570 TubShower Valve.jpg
    I seem to remember from somewhere that you should remove internal parts from a tub/shower valve before putting a torch to it, but I can't figure out how the cartridge comes out. Is there an alternative to trying to find the Moen 104421 special tool?
    Moen 104421 Cartridge Removal Tool.jpg

    It looks different from my other special tool


    Special Tool.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2013
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The valve in your picture has such a large "thermal mass" that you would not have to disassemble it to solder the pipes in, if you apply the heat properly.
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,438
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    There is a clip at the front of the valve that pulls out from the top. Then the cartridge can be pulled out.
  14. DavidSeon

    DavidSeon New Member

    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    MS Gulf Coast
    Got it. Just wasn't sure if I should give it a good tug or not. Thanks for the help.
    Dave
  15. kilm

    kilm New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    California
    DSC05555.jpg I have a similar problem, any plumber help is much appreciated.

    my shower/tub handle broke while turning it. when i unscrewed everything, i see the cartridge white plastic eaten up and the post i believe its called ( the round metal brass bolt in the center ) of the stem broken in the handle.
    so a removal tool was useless, i got a free replacement cartridge moen 1222 from homedepot, no way to tell my model, except i checked all shower/tub handles on moen website and it seems they all use 1222. the 1222 still doesnt look like my cartridge, mine has very white plastic, the house was built around 2000.

    anyway i drilled 2 1/8" hole in the plastic and put in the holes self drilling screws, tried to twist the screws with a nut wrench and the screws bent and the cartridge didn't move at all, and the plastic broke, i can now see the metal and one round rubber came out.
    i tried using a 1/4" self drilling screw in one of the holes but it was too close to the pipe so i stopped.
    i have used vinegar. nothing.

    now that the plastic broke a bit i can see the post (the round metal brass bolt in the center) which is about 1cm long, i tried to pull it with pliers, and couldnt cause i cant reach deep enought to have a good grasp.
    I called a plumber mr rooter he wanted around $1000 to fix that along with 2 dripping faucets.
    I cant afford that. he told me they overcharge because i called the company directly, he said i could find a self employed plumber to do it for $300, but i dont wana call someone from google.

    im gona buy the lasco 13-2125 removal tool if i ever get the stem out.

    now im thinking to drill the the round metal brass bolt in the center and use a tap and 1/4" bolt.
    im just affraid that the metal dust and shreds will contaminate the water.

    i had also water leak from the cartridge to the inside wall and into the living room downstairs the first day, until i realized after 24 hours and fixed it with tape.
    it was bad, and i am now afraid of mold or termites. especially that water leaked before when i was cleaning the toilet few months back, i dont know how water leaked to living room, apparently from the floor to behind the baseboard. they make these houses in cardboard boxes ?!
    do i have to tear down the dry wall to check for mold ? i have a newborn in the house and read that it can be dangerous.

    around the pipe is black tape to avoid leaking inside wall.

    thank you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2014
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,344
    Location:
    New England
    If the wetting was a one-time thing, and not long in duration, AND it dried out, mold isn't likely a big issue. It can be if it is wet for a long time. No experience with trying to remove a Moen cartridge, so can't help. If worse comes to worse, and you have access from the rear so you don't have to tear up the tile, it might be simpler to just cut the old valve out and put in a new one.
  17. Yacko Warner

    Yacko Warner New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    California
    Bolt Extractor

    My efforts got the stem/core out, leaving the cartridge body behind.

    I used a screw/bolt extractor tool, sized for bolts 5/8 - 7/8", itself 1/2" at the stem. It went in with a half-dozen hammer taps, and I was able to twist it out with vice-grips. It took me maybe two minutes; the tool was $10.
  18. Asiangem

    Asiangem New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Venice Beach
    I got my 30 years old cartridge removed with Kano Kroil Penetrating oil and CRL

    I had the same problem with a Grohe cartridge which was never removed (over 30 years). I first put CRL Calicum Lime remover on a rag and covered it with the plastic bag and a rubber band to hold it for one week.

    Then I used my very favorite penetrating oil spray is Kroil Penetrating Spray by Kano. Based on scientific discoveries at Kano Laboratories, Kroil creeps into millionth inch spaces!!

    It really works - there is regular Kroil Penetrating Oil Spray or Kroil Penetrating Oil Spray with Silicone (which may affect the rubber gaskets so you might want to go with the regular spray without silicone). I sprayed is several times through the week and let it just sit there with the penetrating oil on it. And it worked to remove the 30 years old Grohe cartridge that was stuck!

    P.S. You can't buy the Kroil Penetrating oil spray the stores but only on-line. The airplane mechanics swear by this penetrating oil spray!:)
  19. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,737
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I agree it's great stuff. I bought a gallon of it when I first got into aircraft mechanicking, and it's looking like that's a lifetime supply.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2013
  20. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Nothing you people are talking about applies to the 1222 cartridge. A 1/2" rod does NOT work. There are several ways to remove the broken 1222 cartridge, but you have to be careful NOT to damage the brass body. I would suggest calling a "good" plumber, because not all plumbers will know how to safely remove it, and might suggest replacing the valve instead.
Similar Threads: Stuck Moen
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Universal handle adapter stuck on new Moen 1225 cartridge stem Mar 3, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Moen 1225 BODY stuck in bath faucet Mar 30, 2007
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Nice used faucet stuck to old sink Aug 6, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice stuck water knob Jul 1, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice 2inch packer pvc drop pipe stuck in well if it breaks what can i do Jun 2, 2014

Share This Page