shared well, neighbors ose pressure

[lakehouse]

The pressure switch is operating between 48 and 60 psig (12 pounds). My question is what will it tell me if the pressures do not match when pump pressure is zero; failed bladder, blocked lines, etc.?

 

[Speedbump]

Also, should I be worried about the range of the pressure switch working between 48-50 psig, i.e. should I try to get it back to 40-60?

You have to make up your mind here. I am going from what you said a few posts ago.

If you drain the system pressure, only then can you test the tanks PRECHARGE.

bob...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[lakehouse]

Sorry, you are right, I did say 48-50 in one post, typo. Ok, so now I will know the precharge. What will that tell me, failed what? Replace what?

 

[Speedbump]

If the tanks are heavy they are bad. If water comes out of the valve stem, they are bad. If they have low air pressure, bring them back up to the recommended pressure for your switch setting. Then check them again in a month or so. If they are low on pressure again, they are probably bad.

bob...

 

[lakehouse]

Thank you. Would any of those things cause the problem my neighbors are having, i.e. no water at all when I have water at my house?

 

[Speedbump]

I suppose they all could contribute to their problem. The best way to know is to put a gauge that your sure of at the pump and one at their house. Then monitor the pressures simultaneously while you are both trying to use water. A couple of cell phones would be handy for this test.

bob...

 

[Wondering]

Let us know how much air was in the tanks when you get that checked.

 

[Sammyhydro11]

If the pressure is dropping to 25psi at the tanks while they are taking a shower at the other house, then you are haveing a delivery problem with the pump system. You should really try to post some photos.

Sammy

 

[lakehouse]

Ok, first to answer Sammy's question, I had the power to the pump off when I was troubleshooting that day and only could get down to 25 psi before their daughter needed to take a shower, so I had to turn the pump back on... nuff said.

Today I was able to turn power off, bleed pressure down to zero. Using a tire gage, I got zero pressure on both tanks. Turning the pump back on, I got some water at my house almost right away and slow flow started up the hill at their house around 25 psig.

I think what I really need for data now is when I have flow at my house and they do not, what pressure is on my gage at the pump, and is the pressure switch on or not?

So I think I should have had pressure in both tanks when I bled down (precharge). Since I did not, should I pressurize them with a compressor? I do not know if there is a bladder in these tanks or not. Remember that my pump cycles over several minutes even under large usage, so I don't see a problem there. Thank you

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Yes, you need to monitor the gauge at the tanks when they have low pressure.

Sammy

 

[Rancher]

Using a tire gage, I got zero pressure on both tanks.

You should have added air to the tanks at this point.

Turning the pump back on, I got some water at my house almost right away and slow flow started up the hill at their house around 25 psig.

You will always get water when the pump is on, even if the tanks are waterlogged.

So I think I should have had pressure in both tanks when I bled down (precharge). Since I did not, should I pressurize them with a compressor?

Yes

I do not know if there is a bladder in these tanks or not.

If you have a tire valve type nipple on the top of the tank, you have a bladder tank.

Remember that my pump cycles over several minutes even under large usage, so I don't see a problem there. Thank you

I don't see how this is possible with zero pressure in the tanks...

Rancher

 

[lakehouse]

Yes there are tire valve type nipples on the top of both tanks. I don't know what to say about the pump not cycling, that has never been a problem. It is very consistent in coming on and going off at the same pressures and it takes several minutes (at least) to drift down from cut out to cut in (when using water).

 

[Gary Slusser]

And while you have the power off and the tank drained, assuming you have a jet pump there in the well house....

Take the tube off the pressure switch and the other end of it off the pump and take that fitting off the pump and the one on the switch and make sure all of them and the tubing is open and not blocked with anything. Also check the holes the fittings screw into. Then put it all back together. I believe the pump isn't seeing the pressure change in real time and it is lagging behind coming on late.

Then replace the gauge with a new one. Then set the the air pressure with no water in the tanks at 39-38 psi (with no water in the tanks). Then turn on the power, the pump will come on and shut off. Read the gauge. Run water and when the pump comes on shut it off but until then watch the gauge noting the gauge reading when the switch clicks and the pump comes on. That is the cut-in setting and it has to be 40 so adjust it if needed, Then run water again to get the pump to run, shut off the water and watch the gauge and adjust the switch to shut off the pump at 60 psi. Repeat until to you get the on/off to 40/60.

Then if they still have low flow, replace the 40 year old galvanized with a roll of 160 psi rated PE pipe.

 

[lakehouse]

Update finally. I bled pressure, then put about 42 psig in each tank. While I had the pressure down, I disconnected the pressure switch and checked both the connections where it joins to the pump discharge and the switch itself. No blockage or debris. Some corrosion, but no way it is causing a bad reading. I did not replace the gage because it is fairly new and tracks consistently with what I expect. I adjusted the cut-out up to about 65 psig, cut-in is now at about 47 psig. I still have no problems at my house.

My neighbors have had their water go out now three times in the last week. My neighbor observed the gage for one time and I did for another. Both times, we saw around 50 psig on the gage when they had no water and I did have water. Then we would turn water on at my house, the pump would come on around 47 psig and when the pressure rose to about 53 psig, they would get water back. As I see it, at the low end of the operating pressure range, there is an occasional event that causes no flow of water to my neighbors house. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, they don't get flow back until 53 psig or so.

It is not a slow return of pressure to their house; it goes from no flow at all to normal flow when it comes back on. Note from previous posts that with continuous water on at their house, and turning power to the pump off, they have flow all the way down to 25 psig at least, slowing, but still flowing.

So, my plan now is to check the pressure on the tanks in about a month (after turning off the pump and going to no flow at my house). If there's a problem, I'll replace the tanks.

I still think their problem with water flow is unrelated to that. Still seems to me that a flow restriction in their line exists, and since it seems to be a "sudden on" as pressure comes up, a sticking check valve seems logical. Should I tell him to start digging where the line comes in to his house or at the outlet to the pump house? Other thoughts?

 

[Wondering]

I believe they have a valve closing somewhere.

In the mean time why not try changing your pressure to come on at 50 and turn off at 70psi? Then see if it stops within the month you are going to be trying it out.

I told you in an earlier post that at one time I had a check valve to a shop and it was located right outside the pump house where the water line to the shop joined the other line. Maybe that is where theirs is but then maybe it is at the house??

I really don't understand though how they have water at 25 psi and then not have water at a higher pressure(47 to 53 psi before it came back on).

I am sure someone here who knows way more than me will have the answer.

 

[Sammyhydro11]

There is a restriction between those tanks and the neighbors house. If its galvanized piping, it could be anywhere. I would check all accessible fittings.

Sammy

 

[Speedbump]

The tanks have nothing whatsoever to do with your problem.

If you have a plastic check valve, I have seen them stick before. Generally when they stuck though, they stayed stuck.

I would tell him to start digging, since he needs larger and newer pipe anyway.

bob...

 

[Rancher]

It is not a slow return of pressure to their house; it goes from no flow at all to normal flow when it comes back on. Note from previous posts that with continuous water on at their house, and turning power to the pump off, they have flow all the way down to 25 psig at least, slowing, but still flowing. "a sticking check valve seems logical"

I think you hit the nail on the head, it must be a sticking check valve (or some other obstruction)...

Rancher

 

[Gary Slusser]

This is to the original poster, owner/landlord/well owner.

The air pressure is not right for 47/65 switch settings, neither is the differential. You need 1-2 psi less air than the cut-in setting with no water in the tank.

You want a minimum of 20 psi difference between on and off.

You keep saying as you expect etc.. If you knew what to do or how the system was supposed to work, you wouldn't need help.

The water stopping when the gauge says 27 psi means there is that much pressure loss between the gauge and their faucet/fixture. I do not believe there is another check valve or that it is sticking, a glob of rust etc. could be the cause of no water but...

IIRC you lose .433 psi per foot of elevation above the pressure tank tee to their highest fixture. So 27*.433= 12' elevation, is that about right to the fixture they are using when the water shuts off?

If you aren't draining the pressure tank to set the captive air pressure, you don't have the correct volume of air in the tank and the bladder is not 'working' correctly. And that compressed air provides the power to move water when the pump isn't working.

 

[Markts30]

IIRC you lose .433 psi per foot of elevation above the pressure tank tee to their highest fixture. So 27*.433= 12' elevation, is that about right to the fixture they are using when the water shuts off?

I don't understand this Gary....
I thought 27# pressure would get divided by .433...
About 62' of head pressure there (would flow vertically 62')...