Shallow well vertical casing adapter

[atfdmike]

Hi,
Well, I am back to the source of all well knowledge, but this time for a friend. He inherited a cabin in the woods that has a two inch well at 30 feet deep. the static water level is at 4 feet below land. It was pumped 2 1/2 hours at 10 gpm and the water was at 21 feet below land back in 1986. He has a 60 gauze screen, four feet in length and set between 26 and 30 feet.
OK, his problem is that the Sears Vertical Casing Adapter at the top of the well pipe is leaking a lot. He would like to fix it himself but does not know what that would entail. He is considering changing the tank and pump as well, so the question (finally) is what would be the optimal way to approach this situation? Would he be further ahead just replacing the adapter and leaving the rest alone, or could he see a noticeable improvement in water supply by revamping the system and eliminating the current two pipe adapter and converting to a shallow well pump with just the single pipe going in to the adapter?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice!

 

[Pumpman]

Since there is a casing adapter and two pipes going to it, I would assume that there is a 2" packer down in the well. A packer does the same thing as a deep well ejector does in a 4" well.
A packer is normally used when the depth to water in a 2" well is too far down for a shallow well pump setup.
Alot of things could have changed with the well since 1986, which may be why there is a packer in there now.
If the system works well, other than the leak, I would leave well enough alone, repair the leak and call it a day.
Ron

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Speedbump]

And, if you move that casing adaptor up/down or turn it, you can easily break the seal that the leathers have against the casing. Now the water will leak down the well beyond the jet. This means you will now need to pull it all out. Not an easy task.

bob...

 

[atfdmike]

OK, We had not seen it but the well report says there is a "K-Packer" and a Bremer Check and that it is "blank above screen 4 feet". I did not mention it because it did not mean anything to me. I don't know what a "deep well ejector" is that Ron refers to either; but can the leak be fixed, or should I ask if it is possible to remove the Sears casing adapter from the casing and pipes without pulling the drop pipe? The illustrations from Sears (original) look like the casing adapter uses compression rings to seal the pipes coming in from the pump, but does not show if or how the pipe that goes down in the well casing hooks to the suction pipe from the pump to the adapter.
The well seems to have good production, he just wants to stop the leakage.
He will have to cut the adapter bolts off since they are rusted beyond use, and since he is out in the woods and far from any plumbing supplies he is trying to be as prepared and familiar as possible.
thanks for the replys!

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Where exactly is the leak coming from?You say vertical,are these pipes going into the well head horizontally or is there a pump mounted on this well head? If the pump is mounted on the well head It is possible that the gasket between the pump and the well head is the problem. If so, you could simply unbolt the pump from the well head and replace that gasket. It sounds like the pump may be in the cabin. Is the well itself PVC or steel. The only way to successfully remove that well head is to lift your drop pipe a foot or two, clamp the drop pipe so it doesn't shoot down the hole,get some pipe wrenches,put one on your drop pipe,one on the well head,and spin off the well head. DO NOT TURN THE DROP PIPE.

SAM

 

[Speedbump]

The bremer check seals off the screen from the casing and is also a check valve. Once the water gets to the top of the well, it should stay there. I'm not sure why they used a K-Packer and a Bremer check. They both seal the screen off.

If you move the casing adaptor, you will almost certainly break the leathers seal to the casing. If you do, you will have to pull it all the way out. The droppipe screws into the bottom of the casing adaptor, when you move it, you move the jet and pipe.

bob...

 

[atfdmike]

OK, I think I am getting the picture now. The pump and tank are located in a well pit outside the cabin. It is a steel well. The adapter and pipes are covered in rust and some type of sealer that his Dad tried to stop the leaking water with before, so this has been going on for some time.
If I understand you, the two pipes going in to the adapter are sealed by the adapter. It may be that the water leak is actually pressurized water that is being returned to well by the jet pump. It could be a rust hole in the pipe, but more likely the seal(s) on the adapter? Somehow the entire 2" pipe is full of water so what looks like a leak could be just water slipping by the seals of the pipe adapters?
In any event, moving the pipes up and down should be OK, but rotating them will result in the need to replace the leather seal to the casing.
Sorry if I sound thick in the head. I have a simple shallow well pump set up myself, and have never messed with (or understood) how a jet pump works.
Thanks for the patience.

 

[Speedbump]

There is only one pipe going down the casing. That's what the casing adaptor does. It makes the casing the second pipe. Water is pushed down the casing, into the jet which gets more water from the well and pushes it up the pipe into the pump again. Some water is circulating all the time while a portion is sent to the tank. If you move that casing adaptor at all, you will probably break the seal the leathers have on the casing. If the rubber under the casing adaptor is leaking which is unlikly, you can cut it off the casing and take several 1/4" pieces of square rubber, cut to length so they wrap around the casing. Put the cuts at different places around the pipe and tighten up the bolts. That should stop the leak.

bob...

 

[atfdmike]

I hope this will be the final question ..... OK, now I understand about what kind of jet system he has and how it works. Also, I see that I cannot move the drop pipe at all for fear of permanently breaking the seal that allows the jet to force more water from the well. The leak appears only at the top of the adapter where the two pipes go in to the well. There is no leak between the adapter and the well casing. The two pipes that go in to the adapter from the pump, one is 1 1/4" (suction) and the other is 1"(jet), the diagram we have of the Sears adaptor shows the 1" jet as being unthreaded where it goes in to the adapter. The compression ring must seal it. Is it the same for the 1 1/4" suction pipe, that it is also threadless, the illustration does not indicate how the suction line hooks to the adapter, other than it has it's own seal ring. Can we assume that he can simply unclamp the upper flange, releasing compression on the two pipes, and then remove the pump and pipes to the well and leave the adapter alone, thus not breaking the packer seals? Simply replace the seal rings around the suction pipe and jet pipe?

 

[Speedbump]

All this time I thought you had the bolt on adaptor. You have that goofy Sears adaptor that all of us in the business learned to hate so much. The two bolts on top squeeze the rubber around the 1-1/4" droppipe that holds the jet in place. If you loosen the bolts, you may loose the droppipe and jet. It depends on how clean the water is.

If it were me, I would try tightening the bolts a little or just leave it alone. You may be opening a real can of worms.

There is no kind of gookie puckie that can seal a pressure leak from the outside. At least not for long.

bob...

 

[Sammyhydro11]

I have had plenty of luck through the years pulling jets a foot or so to replace well heads without causing any dammage to the packers.In most cases the packers will re seal as long as water has contact with them. If they dont reseal you will notice the pump cycling on its own or you will have a hard time priming the pump.

You cannot simply unscrew the well head without pulling the drop pipe up a foot or so. The drop pipe threads into the well head and in order to unscrew it from the drop pipe you need to back up the drop pipe with a pipe wrench. If you dont, the drop pipe will turn counter clockwise and will unthread from the firts coupling in the well or the jet itself. You still havent answered a very important question. Is the well steel or PVC??

SAM

 

[Sammyhydro11]

If that is the well head that speedbump is talking about,than my last reply is junk and i have no experience with those types of well heads.

SAM

 

[Sammyhydro11]

So i imagine there are 4 bolts on this well head, 2 to seal the well head to the casing and 2 to seal the well head to the drop pipe? If so you could loosen the 2 bolts that hold that seal to the casing and try pulling the well head up along with the drop pipe.

SAM

 

[Speedbump]

They are in three pieces Sam. They are a real pain in the a**. If he loosens the two bolts around the droppipe, it could take off downward. Never to be seen again.

bob...

 

[Speedbump]

We are both typing at the same time Sam.

If it's the one I think it is, from Sears. It has two long bolts and one short one that hold all of the three pieces together. Then there are two more at the top that tighten a rubber against the droppipe. Whoever invented this thing should be shot. Flint and Walling had one that was similar but much more user friendly.

bob...

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Bob,
sounds like an engineer with too much time on his hands designed that one. I dont know what to say becasue i dont have enough experience with them but there has go to be a way to lift that drop pipe without getting into trouble. My only concern with replacing it with a new well head if he does get it off,would be wether or not the drop pipe up top is threaded or not. If not i think he would be better off pulling the whole assembly up,replace the jet, get that pipe threaded,or replace the whole section. If he doesnt have access to a pipe threader,for the low cost of the pipe i would just replace it. What do you think?

SAM

 

[Speedbump]

I agree, pulling the whole thing and replacing it would be the best thing to do. But sometimes they come our real hard. I don't have to tell you how hard they can be. I have beat on some of them for several hours to get them out. That's with a pump hoist, a walking beam and a set of jars. The other problem is possibly plugging the jet. That happens a lot where there is iron or sulphur is present in the water.

bob...

 

[Sammyhydro11]

I hope for him the well is PVC and not steel.

SAM

 

[atfdmike]

I never thought this question would start so much conversation!
Well, looks like we are back to square one. It is the dreaded Sears adapter on a Steel 2" well, With a sears 1/2 pump. There are three bolts on the adapter, two of them hold the compression flange on the two pipes going in to the well.
If I understand the new direction of this situation, if the two pipes are loosened by removing the compression flange, then the drop pipe will fall in to the well? The well was put in in 86.
Is there a way you can explain the way the pros would deal with this? It sounds like he will have to pull the whole drop pipe and jet to install a newer and hopefully better designed adapter?

 

[Speedbump]

If it's the adaptor I'm referring to, there will be 5 bolts.

bob...