Rough plumbing water closet comments requested

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Randyj

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Dukes. As long as you enjoy what you're doing and are comfortable with it then you've got as good a job as possible. I could tell you a few things about my life but I'd rather not do that in public. At any rate, I had a few hard knocks and after a good job I got dumped after helping my boss build a multi million dollar business. I went into business for myself only to utilize my education. That business lasted about 10 years and bellied up. I had spent most of my life helping my mom with her rental house repairs and worked on an institutional maintenance crew for a couple of years. In my business I did all of my own work to remodel and plumb the old building before opening the business. I set up over 100 aquariums on a central filtration system with manifold water and air supplies... talking about ALOT of plumbing!!!! My son was about 13 when I did this... he's 28 now and has got a good job with a national plumbing repair company... he makes very good money... from just the good old stuff his old pappy taught him...never a day in class, never worked for anyone else. It just takes a good mechanical aptitude and decent problem solving skills. I know lots of people who can't hold a screwdriver and never would be able to do it. It just requires patience and taking it step by step. In the plumbing business the shortest route from point A to point B is seldom a straight line. Knowing what's available, learning the tools and the parts, and doing just what you're doing here... picking up tips from experienced people.. that's what it's all about. Belive me, you can get a good education just screwing up jobs and having to fix your screw ups to satisfy an inspector... they've taught me alot!
 
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dukes

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Hello again, It seems we get so much wiser with years. I enjoyed the high tech business for about 44 years. I literally burned out trying to keep up with technology. Looking back it was kind of foolish working so hard to produce products that would only last (market wise) about a year. Building this addition is so satisfying, and if I do a good job this house might last 50 years or more. Which was more important? Duh, looks like a "no brainer" question. Anyway, I have an appointment with the plumbing inspector Thursday morning to go over my DWV plan. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Thanks again, Bill (Dukes)
 

dukes

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Hello, I just realized this morning something probably everyone else on this forum already knew. Just in case there is someone else who could benefit I will reveal my ignorance of the subject. DWV fittings have "built in" 1/4 inch per foot angles! It was bothering me that I might have to torque the pipe to achieve the correct angle. I have not yet found the actual specs on the internet, because apparently the published standards for the fittings have to be purchased. Is this why they are called "drainage fittings"? Thanks, Bill (Dukes)
 

Randyj

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I don't have a clue about that...but I can tell you that DWV is not necessarily rated for the pressures of a water line. For drains and waste it has to have an adequate curve for the flow of the waste. For a water supply (water under pressure) this curve is not necessary. And for venting, nobody really cares.
 

Prashster

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Not sure how fittings can be "pre-sloped". A 90 deg el, for example, can be mounted horizontally or vertically, or anyway in between. That'll affect the slope, no?

I'm no pro, but my daughter has noticed that 4 secs of straight pipe can be combined with 4 els to form a perfect square - which might not be poss if the fittings weren't perfect 90's.

There is a good amount of 'play' in the fitting that allows you to achieve desired slope with a little effort; maybe that's what they meant.

I've seen 'drainage' pipes that were much thinner than Sch40 and had flared endings; i thought they were only appropriate for storm water apps...
 

Randyj

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Pipes are made in a variety of ways. The bell end you describe is for ease of connection (be sure the bell is on the intake end, not the discharge end) and keep one from having to use couplings at every joint. About any copper or plastic pipe can be bent a little with no problem, even galvanized. Cast iron and ductile pipe ain't gonna bend. But, you can get just a little bend in about any fitting. You just have to be careful not to stress it so much that you introduce leaks. As for pre-formed, I never noticed and would guess it's just a manufacturers perrogative to cheap out on manufacturing and push the limits for tolerance.
 

dukes

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Hello, I guess the pre angled fittings claim is hard to prove. I based my claim on 3 sources I found last night, and forgot to bookmark. I have only refound one so far and it is by Nibco (a mfg. of ABS pipe and fittings). To quote ""These "systems" have built-in "pitch" or "fall" and require a high degree of accuracy in laying out and cutting pipe to exact lengths. Errors cannot be corrected with stress , heat, or a hammer." " This is at
http://www.nibco.com/assets/ABSGUIDE.pdf I forgot which page, but I found it by clicking on the binoculars and typing in "pitch". One of the other sources was a plumbing engineering standards site. Back to the original thread: My review of DWV plans went well with the inspector. Out of 17 fittings he only found fault with 3. The items are:
1. Did not like wet vent of lavatory in front of toilet. Go around toilet and connect downstream with Y.
2. Did not like combo wye and 1/8 bend from toilet. Use 4 to 3 closet bend instead.
3.Did not like combo wye on shower arm vent end. Use santee instead
I am redrawing my system, and will provide a link later. Thanks, Bill (Dukes)
 

dukes

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Hello again, more about the angle. I have found several references to ASTM D3311 as the standard that defines drainage fittings. It cost $45. I don't want to know the answer that badly, but if someone already has the standard maybe they could check it. I did find a patent application that discusses this. It is at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20040194840.html
It says in part "For example, in the case of a sanitary tee branch, the sanitary tee branch isn't exactly 90 degrees, so that when pipe is attached to it, the tee branch approaches at a slope of about 1/4" per foot." Later, Bill (Dukes)
 
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