Redoing water plant - Iron treatment and water softener suggestions

[ace400xs]

This is a continuation of discussion we have been having over in the Pump and Tank forum. I have finally gotten the water supply issues mostly taken care of and am moving on to treating the water (https://terrylove.com/forums/index....of-water-plant-replace-pressure-tank-with-csv.)

I did some water testing and this is what I came up with (these numbers are as precise as I could get with the test strips I used. I have some better PH strips on the way.):

Hardness: 250ppm
Alkalinity: 180ppm
PH: 7
Iron: 3ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5ppm
Flow Rate (at bathtub): 5gpm (I have questions as to whether this is a real number giving how clogged up most of the plumbing I have cut into so far has been.)

Based on those results, I am contemplating something that looks like this:

CSV ---> Sediment Filter ---> Iron Removal System (Katalox?) ---> Water Softener (preferably metered)

I would like to keep the plumbing all 1" until after the water treatment plant. One of the reasons for this is we are building a new barn with a bathroom and kitchenette which will need to be supplied with water from this plant as well.

I am trying to determine proper sizing for the treatment portion of this system and am looking for any suggestions from the experts.

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[ditttohead]

Iron reduction is typically done with KL, be prepared for adding some sort of regenerant if the results are not as desired. This can always be done later. Softening is also easily doe, but..

How many gallons do you estimate you will use per day? Is this just for a residential application or are there farm animals etc involved? If so how many...

More info is needed to make a good recommendation.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ace400xs]

First, a correction to the above info. I was able to get a much better flow rate estimate by using the cold water washing machine hookup. That filled a 5 gallon bucket in about 25 seconds so the well is capable of supporting a 12 gpm flow rate.

Would the regenerant require some sort of additional feeder system? Where exactly does that that attach to the system?

I am unsure how to accurately estimate our water usage. I can say there are currently 2 adults living in the house, with a possible 3rd adult in the future. A total of 2-3 showers a day plus a dishwasher cycle and I would say we average a load of laundry a day. There are farm animals, pigs and goats which do require some drinking water, although not really a significant amount. There may be more animals added when the new barn is built. We probably use more water for cleaning the animal enclosures than for actual drinking purposes currently, although I do want to add an RO filter down the road so we can cut down on bottled water usage.

I have been looking at a Katalox system using a Fleck 2510SXT and have some some different numbers regarding my service flow rate. Using the manufacturer's documentation, it looks like somewhere between 2.5 and 3 cubic feet seems to be the right size. Does this sound right? I'm guessing it would be better to err on the high side. Is this an accurate assumption?

J

 

[ace400xs]

I've been sizing out the Katalox iron removal system and one thing has me stumped. I had planning to keep the plumbing at 1" for the main trunk and only going down in size once it branched off to other parts of the house and the barn. So far, all of the iron removal systems I have seen use either the Fleck 2510 or 5600SXT. These both have 3/4" ports. Is there a 1" valve that can be used? I thought a 1" main trunk was more common. Why am I having such a hard time finding a Fe system that supports this?

J

 

[Reach4]

So far, all of the iron removal systems I have seen use either the Fleck 2510 or 5600SXT. These both have 3/4" ports. Is there a 1" valve that can be used?

Fleck 2510 and 2510SXT can pass a lot of GPM. https://www.flecksystems.com/fleck-2510-filter-timer-valve-145-2510sxt-t.html (which is not a Fleck site) says

The Fleck 2510SXT Electronic Time Clock Filter Valve provides larger internal porting for better flow rates and less pressure drop.​

• Inlet/Outlet: 1"

 

[JRC3]

I've been sizing out the Katalox iron removal system and one thing has me stumped. I had planning to keep the plumbing at 1" for the main trunk and only going down in size once it branched off to other parts of the house and the barn. So far, all of the iron removal systems I have seen use either the Fleck 2510 or 5600SXT. These both have 3/4" ports. Is there a 1" valve that can be used? I thought a 1" main trunk was more common. Why am I having such a hard time finding a Fe system that supports this?

Contact the filter company and see if they can install a Fleck 7000. I'm sure they are still available. Or buy everything from separate suppliers and build it yourself.

 

[ditttohead]

I am not a fan of the 2510 for backwash rates in excess of 7 GPM. It uses a funky external heavy flow control. In my opinion it puts a bit too much stress on the valve body.

PM sent.

 

[ace400xs]

Contact the filter company and see if they can install a Fleck 7000. I'm sure they are still available. Or buy everything from separate suppliers and build it yourself.

Is it only the Fleck 7000SXT that is metered? Is the plain Fleck7000SXT appropriate for iron filtering?

Does anyone have an opinion on the Genesis High Flow systems? They keep popping up advertise themselves as the "the only water softener sold on the Internet with a true, one-inch (1”) internal port.", now that the Flec7000 has been discontinued.

Perhaps I am overreaching here and the higher flow rate isn't required, but given the addition of the barn/apartment plus the distance the water must travel to get there, I don't see any reason to go down to 3/4" until it is necessary.

 

[Reach4]

Is it only the Fleck 7000SXT that is metered? Is the plain Fleck7000SXT appropriate for iron filtering?

You normally don't use a metered controller for filtering. You backwash based on time. If you buy a system set up for filtering, it normally does not come with the metering unit. So not all 7000SXT controllers are metered.

The 7000 offers 3 pistons per the manual:
61452-10 ...Piston Assembly, 7000, Softener, D/F 35
gpm
61453-10 ...Piston Assembly, 7000, Softener, D/F 28
gpm
61452-20 ...Piston Assembly, 7000, Filter 35 gpm

The filter piston may not support all of the cycles of a softener. A softener controller can be used for filtering.

I can see that metering could be interesting to see how much water you are passing.

 

[JRC3]

Is it only the Fleck 7000SXT that is metered? Is the plain Fleck7000SXT appropriate for iron filtering?

It's what I use. It's backwash only so it doesn't have a meter or a brine port.

I can see that metering could be interesting to see how much water you are passing.

You'd have one on the softener located right after. Unless there's an application to take water before the softener.

 

[Reach4]

It's what I use. It's backwash only so it doesn't have a meter or a brine port.


You'd have one on the softener located right after. Unless there's an application to take water before the softener.

True, except for the softener backwash and other water that does not go out of the exit port. The water drawn from the boiler drain between the units for watering plants, and maybe drinking, is minimal.

 

[JRC3]

I didn't really consider the softener backwash. I guess my thought was the iron filter backwashes more frequently and you'd just be looking at the usage between those backwashes.

 

[Reach4]

I didn't really consider the softener backwash. I guess my thought was the iron filter backwashes more frequently and you'd just be looking at the usage between those backwashes.

I agree with the main point... Just splitting hairs/bantering.

 

[ace400xs]

I wasn't trying to imply that I needed metering for the iron filter; I was merely trying to understand all of the differences between the models of valves but I see now that the valves can all be configured any number of ways.

This discussion just exposes my ignorance of what all of the options are and what goes into setting up the system. I have no problem doing the plumbing and the install, but I think it best if I leave the system configuration up to the pros.

J

 

[JRC3]

Sorry, we confused things by yapping about the meter. Just look into a backwash only 7000 for iron.

 

[ditttohead]

The 7000 filter piston does not accommodate "regenerant draw" but it does have a higher backwash rate capability than the softener pistons.
A meter can be added to either the softener or filter version, it does not really matter to the piston. Metered filter valves are very common.

 

[Reach4]

The 7000 filter piston does not accommodate "regenerant draw" but it does have a higher backwash rate capability than the softener pistons.
A meter can be added to either the softener or filter version, it does not really matter to the piston. Metered filter valves are very common.

I was thinking that adding a meter afterwards would be more expensive.

When got my iron+H2S filter, I was under the mistaken impression that there was a meter present but being ignored by programming. It took a while to realize it was not there.

When the filtering valve has metering, is it typically used to schedule backwashes, or is it more for information?

 

[ditttohead]

It can be either. The totalizer function is nice. Peak flow rate, etc. In general we will set the meter to regenerate after XX gallons, but depending on the media and the contaminat levels we will also program an override in as well. Similar to a softener but typically the DO will be between 3 and 14. A softener can usually bet set for 30 days. A good example would be lots of iron. The meter may be set to regenerate after 1000 gallons of every 4 days. A carbon tank use for municipal applications may be set for 10,000 gallons or every 14-28 days.