Raised flange - what type of seal to use?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by hsmith46, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. hsmith46

    hsmith46 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Arlington VA
    I am replacing a toilet in our lower level (basement) bath (very small room) which has a concrete subfloor. The flange sits atop the concrete; the top of the flange is approx. 1/2" above the concrete subfloor. There is vinyl tile on top of the concrete. The flange is plastic and has 4" diameter opening at the lip of the flange reducing to 3" an inch or so further down. There is a 90 degree bend about 6" below where it reduces to 3".

    Question is what type of seal to use:

    1. Wax with plastic funnel
    2. Wax without plastic funnel
    3. Waxless (ex. Fluidmaster 7500).

    After reading numerous posts in forums, I did a test with new toilet of the option 1 with a Fluidmaster#1 just to see how the wax ring formed when compressed. It concerned me when I removed the toilet (did not bolt it down), the wax ring was virtually flat and the plastic funnel was left behind over the flange. (I put masking tape over the flange and toilet to eliminate most cleanup of wax.)

    From what I have read on forums, option 2 (wax ring w/ no funnel) seems to be a better idea in this situation. That was probably what the 30-year toilet that was there had before. To my knowledge, it never leaked water and did not notice sewer gas.

    Option 3 (waxless) seems that it would work but from what I have read, it is better at solving problems where the flange is recessed, not raised.

    Lowering the flange would be virtually impossible since it sits on top of several inches of concrete. The toilet is not completely level on the floor, but the slight rock could be taken care of by a shim. I do not think this is due to the flange since it rocks slights on the floor beside the flange. I am sure the builders did not worry to much about a level floor in the basement, most of it covered with carpet. I am sure that the other 75 houses in our development are the same.

    I would welcome any suggestions as I have spent hours trying to figure this out. Fully installing the toilet and having to pull it out would be no fun.

    Thanks so much.

    Henry
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,799
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    With the flange so high, it would be wax without the horn.
  3. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Connecticut
    The important part is can you get the toilet to set all the way down onto the floor or does it rest on the flange?
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    First thing, set the toilet in place without any wax or anything on it. Make sure it sits flat without rocking, expecially that it does NOT sit and rock on the flange. If it rocks because th efloor is not flat (or the toilet isn't), shim it first, install the wax, then set it in place again.
  5. hsmith46

    hsmith46 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Arlington VA
    Terry, thanks for your prompt response. Will use the wax-only seal.

    Redwood and Jadnashua, as far as I can tell, the slight rocking of the toilet is not because of the flange since it does it on the floor either side of the flange. However, the space between the toilet and flange will be minimal although the old toilet sat there for 30 years w/o problems until the tank broke unexpectedly. The old wax was quite compressed. I suppose we will try it with the wax-only seal and see what happens.

    Henry
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,799
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If the bowl rocks, then shim at the back, pinning the front of the bowl to the floor.

    [​IMG]
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