Questions about GPM and pressure tanks

[7mmrum]

I'm trying to figure a few things out and was wondering if you guys could answer a few questions.


1.) I'm trying to figure out how to increase the pressure or GPM of water at the faucet/bathroom or whole house for that matter.?

2.) And not have the pump come on with the flush of a toilet.?

From what I know I have a 1/3hp pump, the pressure tank is set to 35/55 I know that is kind of odd you would think 30/50 or 40/60. I have two pressure tanks plumbed together. One that is from the early 70's and galvanized (estimated 30 gallon tank), the other is WX-203 (32 Well-X-Troll tank fairly new). I think the galvanized is water logged and has failed, the switch is plumbed off of this tank as well with the pressure indicator gauge.

I have run through a few home tests and it appears my GPM is 1.4, however that just doesn't sound right to me.

We bought the house last year and contacted the company that serviced the well in the past, they suggested to get rid of the galvanized tank and solely run the WX-203 (by the way it is a 3 bathroom house with 2 people).


I do not know the depth of the well.

So with the questions above are there any suggestions.

thank you,

sean

 

[Bob NH]

A 1/3 HP pump is pretty small for a 35 to 55 psi system, especially if it is a jet pump. Probably ok if it is a submersible. Is it a jet pump or a submersible?

A galvanized tank doesn't fail by being waterlogged. A galvanized tank if failed only if it is leaking.

You can double the drawdown of your system (pump won't start as often when the toilet is flushed) if you add air to the tank.

Your water connection to the galvanized tank should be as low as possible in the tank.

Then, drain that tank to that level and put in air to 33 psi (for your 35 psi system).

Will discuss more after you give us more information on the pump.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[7mmrum]

Bob NH,

As far as I'm aware it is a submersible pump, and if I understand the meaning of that, the pump is located down in the well.

I bought a new water softener due to the old one no longer was performing. I worked with Gary from this site to get the correct model - Clack Ws1. I was planning on installing this in the next week or so.

With that being said I will have to drain the system, so you are saying to use an air compressor and put air into the galvanized tank. Should I do the same for the Well-x-troll tank? Is there a special nipple needed to put air into these tanks. I have a standard tire pressure fitting that I use for putting air into vehicles, tractors, etc. When I do put air into the tank, how do I determine enough air is in there? Will the gauge on the tank read 30 or do I use a tire pressure gauge of some sort?

I have attached a pic that may or may not help.

Galvanized tank is not leaking

 

[Cass]

The air pressure in the tank is determined by the cut in setting on the switch.

The air pressure needs to be 2# lower than whatever the cut in pressure setting of the switch is.

 

[atfdmike]

Pressurizing tank

Hi, Yes, first you shut off the power to the well pump and then open a water faucet until no water come out. Then close the faucet and use a compressor or air tank with clean air to precharge the galvanized tank. Using a standard schraeder valve which is hopefully somewhere on the tank, apply the air using a standard air chuck to raise the pressure as described by Cass previously. You can at this time also check the pressure in the blue tank and adjust it to the same pressure as you set in the galvanized tank. Restore power to the well pump and check to make sure you have no leaks and that the pump shuts off at the correct psi. Open a faucet and verify that the pump cuts in at the proper psi. Hopefully, you will notice that the pump does not have to run as frequently for flushes and hand washing. Hope this amateurs instructions help.

 

[Speedbump]

1.) I'm trying to figure out how to increase the pressure or GPM of water at the faucet/bathroom or whole house for that matter.?

2.) And not have the pump come on with the flush of a toilet.?

For #1 you will have to raise the pressure switch setting. And you may see a big difference when you install the new softener you got from Gary. The one you have may be all gummed up inside and is holding your water flow back. Try pushing the bypass button and see if the pressure increases.

#2 will be better when you do like the guys described above. Keeping the galvanized tank will help keep the pump from cycling so much. Of course so will a cycle stop valve.

bob...

 

[7mmrum]

Thanks for the tips, I'll try some of the suggestions when I get home tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.

The bypass valve is pushed in and the old softener is stll connected. I have not had a chance to remove the old unit yet. Once I get to the install of the new water softener I can check the copper pipes. The current bypass valve is a copper unit, and it will be removed when I install the CLack WS1.

 

[Speedbump]

If your unit is already bypassed, the pressure is going to be a little worse once the new one is installed. There is always a little pressure drop through a unit.

bob...

 

[Gary Slusser]

Speedpump and Sean, I've sold a large number of softeners and regenerated or backwashed only filters and no one has ever mentioned a pressure reduction/loss. But then I installed all but the last thousand+ myself and always checked the pressure on well water systems while doing the install and I adjusted any that needed it. So far no DIYer has mentioned a pressure reduction/loss. IOW's, sized and specified my way, there's no noticeable pressure loss.

Sean, how and where did you measure 1.4gpm?

 

[7mmrum]

The Pressure is the same before and after the old water softener failed, and now with the bypass valve pushed in, the pressure has not changed over these last weeks.

new softener has not been installed and probably won't get to that till Sunday of this week.

I measured the GPM at the kitchen sink, and I'm thinking after researching some more that it is not a good source to get a sample from. Since it has a aerator tip on it, I should of probably taken that off and taken another sample.


Attached is the pic of the galvanized tank, what I thought I could put air pressure through does not look like your standard valve. Anyone seen one of these and know how to force air pressure through one.

 

[Rancher]

Where does that pipe that goes into to the top of that thingie go to? I suspect that is a over pressure relief valve, from the adjustment screw and lock nut on the side.

Oh sorry just googled the "type wj" that is the air volume control...

Rancher

 

[7mmrum]

Rancher, you should be able to see in the picture above it that the pressure gauge is attached to it as well as the pressure switch.


thanks,

sean

 

[Speedbump]

I wasn't bad mouthing your softener Gary, I know you sell quality and size them right. I was just saying that with any filter there is a pressure drop. If the unit is sized right, I agree it is very minimal.

Attached is the pic of the galvanized tank, what I thought I could put air pressure through does not look like your standard valve. Anyone seen one of these and know how to force air pressure through one.

That gadget is an air release valve. Apparently your air making system is plugged up or your galvanized tank wouldn't get waterlogged. I can't see what is on top of the valve, it looks like a 1/4" nipple that probably has the pressure switch hooked to. If you had a tee in that line, you could put a schrader valve there and add air. There may be other places as well.

As for the bad pressure, you may just need to crank the pressure up with the switch. Your plumbing may be a little crusty too.

bob...

 

[7mmrum]

How would I "crank pressure up at the switch" Is there documentation some where that I could look over. It is a Square D switch

If it is a simple I' can try that first to see if that makes a difference otherwise I'll plumb in a air valve that I can tap into this weekend.

Thanks for all the great feedback.

 

[Speedbump]

Be sure to set the bladder tanks pressure to two pounds below your turn on pressure.

Then read this:

Q. How do I adjust my pressure switch?

A. Since Square D is probably the most popular pressure switch on the market, that’s the one we will talk about.

The Square D pressure switch and a few other brands that have copied Square D normally have two springs pushing down on a plate supported on top by 3/8†locking nuts. These nuts can be adjusted to set the desired on/off pressure of your pump motor.

If you are looking to increase the pressure switch settings, you should first adjust the taller of the two springs. This spring will move the on/off setting evenly. That is to say a 20/40 setting can easily become a 30/50, 40/60 or anything in between. To raise the pressure, turn the tall springs nut clockwise a few turns. Turn on a faucet and watch your gauge. ( a good working gauge is necessary ) When the pump starts, the pressure on the gauge is your on pressure. Close the faucet, and let the pump shut off. This pressure is the off pressure. To decrease the on/off pressure, turn nuts counterclockwise.

To increase the off pressure, turn the short springs nut clock wise a few turns and run water to re cycle the pump. Keep adjusting for desired off pressure.

I don’t recommend setting switch higher than 70 PSI for many reasons.
Some bladder tanks will not allow much more than the 20 psi differental. Don’t top out the bladder. This will shorten it’s life dramatically

 

[Raucina]

To get air into the galv tank add it anywhere on the tank inlet side or in any port on the tank. I use a 1/4" valve and a standard quick connect - click your compressor hose on that and open the valve. Or you can simply drain the tank on occasion. [slower, more time, no precharge]

And I will ask again - anyone have a formula to predict how long the air charge will remain between charges in a standard tank?

 

[Jadnashua]

The things that would affect the gas absorbtion that I can think of are: temperature, turbitity, incoming air concentration, system pressure, and the amount of water/air surface. Having the incoming and outgoing water move through the water (lower) part of the tank rather than falling through the air from the top would also be a factor.

 

[7mmrum]

well as you can see from the picture things have changed, sorry for the delay, PA hunting season opened up and well I was a bit busy.

Anyway, with the new tank the pressure through the house is great, definitely tell a difference when you have the washer going and taking a shower at the same time.

Thanks for the great feedback.

 

[Speedbump]

I see you have a new washer too. Must have been a trade off for the hunting trip!

bob...

 

[barnfield]

I see you have a new washer too. Must have been a trade off for the hunting trip!

bob...

Very funny, Speedbump. This is his wife chiming in, and no, that washer is very OLD and yucky!

For some reason the previous owners never removed the yellow sticker.

Anyway, I have my heart set on a new front-load Bosch washer.

Someday...