Moving toilet location in concrete slab.

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by piperca, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    I need to move a toilet approximately 36". My dilemma is, can I cut into the existing 4" stub out from the sewer to make the transition or do I need to cut into the sewer. If it needs to be the sewer, then I'm out of luck, since it is not accessible. I've attached a rough sketch of what I am proposing. Obviously, I'll be making more fluid connections than what is shown ... lol!

    [​IMG]
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    The only potential problems are if you have a post-tensioned slab (typical in earthquake country) or if you don't have enough depth to move it 3'. That's only 3/4" difference at 1/4" per foot and 4" pipe can work with less, so you should be okay.
  3. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    It is a post tension slab; however, I've got that covered. I have the cables marked already. There is one cable right of the existing closet flange, within a couple of inches, but that is the only cable that will be of any issue. I think I can tunnel under that one without any problem. My greatest concern was using fittings to angle to where I need the new flange. I wasn't sure if that would be allowable or cause any issues with blockages, etc. Do you seen anything I might be concerned with?
  4. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    Okay, here are a couple of pictures to show you where I am at and how far I need to move the toilet. As you can see, I've located all of the cables and am ready to start plumbing!

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    If you look to the left of the toilet, there is a cross where I need to relocate the toilet ... better seen in this photograph. So, some pipe between the new location to the old, using a couple of street elbows, would suffice?

    [​IMG]
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    WE cannot tell you what fittings you need because you have to see the existing connection first.
  6. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    Okay, here are a couple of more pics with the drywall off.

    From the center of the closet flange to the center of the pipe behind the toilet with the cleanout is 18". The waste runs directly between those two locations. The center of the closet flange to the center of the new location is 28". Does this help or do you need more information?

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    [​IMG]
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    We would still only be guessing. You will probably be able to move it using a 60 degree bend or a 90, depending on what you find, but since the installer could have been creative, until you actually see the pipes under the floor you will not know how you can revise it.
  8. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    So, basically, what you're saying is that if it is a straight shot from the 3" behind the toilet, I can put an elbow in it, make sure it has 1/4" to the foot fall, and I'll be fine?

    This is a track home that is poorly framed. The plumbing chase you see in the photograph is the only plumbing services in the entire house. It extends into a similar bathroom to the right and the kitchen is on the other side of the plumbing chase ... I don't think there was any creativity used ... LOL!
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    You want to minimize the turns in any drain line...until you expose what's there, you won't know the 'best' way to do it. Depending on where the main line runs, it may work out best to cap what's there (or cut it out) and install a new fitting where you need it. No way to tell (easily anyways) until you tear it apart. You might get an idea if you take the toilet off - you should be able to see what fitting they used and may be able to probe a little with a wire to get an idea where it is going. I doubt it's worth the expense of using a drain camera.
  10. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    Jim, the drain runs directly back to the 3" vent that you see in the photograph, behind the toilet (I've had this toilet off many times). Center to center, 18" of run. I can't get to the actual sewer line, itself, since it is in the plumbing chase and I'd have to disturb the framing to do so ... don't really want to do that. I'm thinking that I'll be able to cut the pipe a few inches from the 3" vent and install an elbow to get it to the new location. Here are a couple of more photographs that show the layout a bit better.

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    [​IMG]
  11. delta d

    delta d New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    nashville
    does sound like a job that could use this friend of mine 1st name jack last name hammer. Rent one and do the job right, get the perfect fall.I'm just saying..

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2009
  12. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    Yes, I intend on renting one from HD for the afternoon. I have to plumb a drain for the vanity area, which I'm moving across the room, so I'll need it for that, too. I hope to be able to cut the drain very close to the 3" line, so I can get the bend right at the 3"; I'd feel a lot better with it there.
  13. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    Okay, finally back to my project.

    I opened the floor today and found what I expected:

    [​IMG]

    My problem is this:

    [​IMG]

    Here is the flange where it needs to be:

    [​IMG]

    This is using a 60 degree fitting; would using a 45 degree and a 22 degree fitting help get me where I need to be ... another 7 degrees? What would be the best way to set this up? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Also, the original drain uses a "closet stabilizer." The top of the 3" is about 10 inches below the surface of the slab, so I'll need to add something to the closet elbow. I've never seen one of these stabilizers before; are they necessary for concrete applications?
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    I have never seen a "stabilizer" before so I guess that means you do not need one. You do not say any more about you sink drain, and that could be much more complicated than your toilet relocation.
  15. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    The sink drain, I am not too worried about. Here is what I have (excuse the mess of tools):

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I intend on raising the floor or the shower the width of a 2x4 and running the drain from behind the shower drain trap to a chase I will build against the wall. Fortunately, my wife wants a ledge in the shower, rather than a step, so it will fit the bill perfectly for the plumbing chase.

    Here's a close up of the shower drain:

    [​IMG]

    I am going to put a T behind the trap and run the sink drain from there ... what do you think; will it work?

    I can also run the drain from this extinct washing machine drain, since the washer and dryer are now in the garage:

    [​IMG]

    If going this route, would I need to cut out the trap?

    So, back to the toilet, what is your suggestion? Am I looking for problems putting the drain in at this angle and adding fittings? Please comment on the best way to achieve the best result. Oh, and what should I use to extend the closet bend to reach floor level? Just a piece of pipe or is there an extender?
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,805
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You can install pipe and fittings in many ways.

    You are allowed 135 degrees of horizontal change on the trap arm.
    That would be up to one 90 and one 45.

    You could make that with 2- 45's or one 90

    It doesn't look like you will be hitting your location with the single 45
    And of course you can use varying lengths of pipe between fittings.
    Sometimes in concrete, I will use a 4x3 90 and stub a 4" pipe for the water closet (toilet)
    Then when the floor is finished, I will cut the pipe flush with the floor and use the closet flange like the one you have, but glue it inside the pipe.
    I then use a rotohammer with a 1/4" bit to drill to secure the flange to the concrete.

    I don't know what you are doing with the other fittings, but you can always cut some of what you have out, and raise or lower the tees as needed.
    The washer standpipe looks low to me.

    So........where is the new lav going?
    I think I missed that.
    What you had was a pretty standard layout, the most common layout you can have.
  17. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    The new sink will be located against the same wall as the shower, at the end of the shower (diagonally across the room from the new toilet location).

    Yes the washer drain is low, since I cut it a few years back when I remodeled our kitchen. Since my last post, I'm leaning towards using the washer drain and leaving the shower floor alone ... makes more sense, correct? Will leaving the water trap in the washer drain be an issue? I wouldn't think so, but thought I'd ask.

    Thanks for all your help!
  18. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    dwv

    You can use a long sweep 90 to turn the drain sideways, and a 4x3 elbow for the toilet with a piece of 4" pipe for the riser. Use an outside the pipe flange. Using the shower drain for the sink, as you intended would be a very bad idea, and you would still need a vent for the sink drain. You cannot leave the washer trap in the line and still use it for the sink drain. In addition, it is so low that you would have to "jump up" for the trap connection and that will also require a vent. One question. You said the sink will be on the opposite side of the room. How to intend to get from there to the washer drain with the shower between the two points?
  19. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    I was hoping I could run the drain through the plumbing chase I was going to create behind the shower.

    This picture shows the wall the shower and vanity will be on. The shower will be on the left and the vanity (approximately 40") will be on the right, where the new framing is:

    [​IMG]

    I placed a black line on the studs, approximately 18 inches from the floor, showing the top of the chase:

    [​IMG]

    If necessary, I was hoping to cut a vent into the existing plumbing vent, which you can see running horizontally in this picture:

    [​IMG]

    How close to the sink must the vent be? Can I loop up, through the attic and back down to connect to the vent pipe?

    Here is a better picture of the washer drain. What must I do to it to make it work for the sink? Should I just cut it out and plumb in another fitting?

    [​IMG]

    The horizontal pipe to the left of the 3" vent is the drain for the old sink.

    Thanks for all your help!
  20. piperca

    piperca New Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    California
    Would something like this work? I could be wrong, but, in my opinion, the drain and vent line could run one on top of the other and be effective, as long as the vent is on top ... correct? Although, I'm sure there is a code that needs met.

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    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
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