Moen, Moen, moan . . .

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by utahtenorsax, May 22, 2006.

  1. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    I just bought an 11-year-old house with two widely separated bathrooms. Both shower stalls have the exact same Moen valves and symptoms. Turning on the shower produces really hot water in the center position, but only warm water in either the extreme right or left positions. Cold water is sometimes available for a few seconds at start-up, but that is obviously attributable to standing water in the pipe overnight.

    I have replaced many Moen cartridges in the past, have never seen one do this. I checked under the house for a tempering valve, but there are only supply lines. If there is a tempering valve, it would have to be hidden behind the shower wall and I can't imagine anyone burying one there.

    Well, duh. Maybe I should just install new cartridges and be done with it. It seems odd that both cartridges would fail at the same time.

    :confused:
  2. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    Replace um...........
  3. moen cartridges

    they are probably those posi temp cartiriges

    wait till you see what they are goonna cost you...

    probably around 65-75 each......
  4. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    If you live in a hard water area try soaking them in vinegar. I have done that more than a few times with great success.
  5. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    Mysterious goings-on

    Replaced cartridges, had no effect. These are not Posi-Temp cartridges (which wouldn't fit these valves anyway), so I sit here scratching my head. All of the other faucets in this house are Moen cartridge valves and they do not have the same problem, so that rules out a piping mistake. It's looking more and more like some inventive plumber installed tempering valves in an inaccessible location.

    :mad:
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Did you try turning them 180 degrees to see what happens?
  7. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    Of course. Turning either or both of them 180 has no effect.
  8. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    A postscript on the last maneuver. I tried swapping the new cartridges with each other (getting desperate) and one of the showers actually produced COLD water in the center position, warm at either side. Turning that cartridge 180 duplicated the warm-hot-warm condition.

    :confused:
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,280
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Can you post a picture of the faucet?
  10. Lancaster

    Lancaster New Member

    Messages:
    164
    Are these Moentrol valves,where you pull the handle out to turn it on and increase the flow? If so,possibly the balancing spool needs to be renewed.
  11. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    Yes, they are Moentrol valves. I'm gonna try replacing the balancing spool if I can get at it. Sounds logical since the water here is hard as nails.

    I would post a picture, but very little of the valve is actually visible.

    I really do appreciate all the help! Thanks to all.
  12. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    Belay the last remark. These are standard Moen cartridge valves with no balancing spool. Also, I have determined that there is no tempering valve installed anywhere, either in the wall or under the house. I have a call in to the original builder of this nightmare, so hope to have this issue resolved soon.
  13. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    I am going to speculate, based on the findings so far, that you have 2 bad valves. A strange thing, but strange things happen.
  14. utahtenorsax

    utahtenorsax New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    My wife said to me, "What a shame those valves don't work, especially after I put the new handles on." I said, "What new handles?" She replied, "The ones I got at the hardware store last week. I put them on because the old handles were all scuzzy."

    Has a light come on out there?

    Ordinarily I wouldn't tell one on myself, but I should have caught this much earlier. The valve handles looked like Moen, but the flats in the slot were 90 degrees out of sync, so they would never work right.

    Duh. I pass this on for whatever it's worth. Thanks for the help.

    :D
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,280
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Yeah, that makes sense, I was wondering at one point, if the valve body had been installed wrong,
    Having the wrong handle makes sense.
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