Let it mellow

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Terry, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    If the bowl is already full and you add something, it has to force something out which is actually what you stated earlier. If it's already low and you add something, it raises the WL. If you have bucket of water filled to the brim, doesn't putting your arm into make it overflow?

    That's what I stated earlier, when I urinate without flushing the WL increases. If agree that if I urinate enough, it fill overflow into the drain but I'm unsure if that's the case.

    If a Toto's bowl is full to the overflow point that would be more of an issue than my AS Cadet 3.
     
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    With your old toilet and the flush valve not stopping, a constant low volume of water down the drain would dilute anything there. Note, the pipe Terry showed was copper. PVC, ABS, and to an extent CI won't show as much reaction to the weak acid. And, if you do enough full flushes before major deposits build up, you probably won't have that issue of salt deposits. That's why a waterless toilet is such an issue...the only thing that actually goes down the drain is urine with essentially no dilution or water to dilute things. If you don't flush for awhile, the urine becomes more and more concentrated, and at some point, it can become a major issue. Obviously, not always - the plumber's tend to only see the extreme cases when it causes damage.
     
  3. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    That was my old toilet but we were talking about WL at the full or less than that, adding solids/liquids and what happens then with my new AS Cadet 3.
     
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    During the time this toilet was overflowing, it was constantly washing the line...there would be no buildup of salts since things were being diluted. How long ago did you replace it?

    Since you replaced it, if it is truly not being properly filled, a use or two overnight may not put anything over the weir, and you might not experience a buildup. If it was working as most are designed, it would be full, and anything you added would force some down the drain.
     
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Okay, so your bowl isn't fully-refilling after you flush. You have now discovered the proper bowl refill level.

    Mark it with a pencil. If you had a fill valve with an adjustable refill percentage (which this toilet doesn't), you would adjust that slightly. Since you don't, as the toilet comes with a valve with a fixed refill percentage, then the water level in the tank is set too low, assuming everything else is correct. Nudge the tank water level up slightly, which will prolong the refill time slightly, which will give you a properly-filled bowl. The thing should shut off when the refill water reliably hits your pencil mark.

    At least that's how it is supposed to work.
     
  6. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    Anyone who uses the Mellow Yellow theory is better off with a toilet that doesn't fill the bowl to the overflow point which causes anything added down the drain then. I have no problem with flushing solids so far.
     
  7. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    Does Toto or any other manufacturer produce fill valves? If not, why do you say, this toilet? How many toilets come with adjustable fill rates?

    If I adjust the tank WL for a full bowl then I'm back to going around in circles with "jadnashua". Using the Mellow Yellow Theory, one is better off with a lower bowl WL.
     
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    You seem to be missing the point that for a toilet to flush, it must first be filled. If it isn't full when you try to flush, it will not flush as well as it could. Doesn't mean it won't flush everything down, but that it won't do it as well as if it were full. People on here regularly complain their toilet doesn't flush properly, and a common answer is that the bowl is not full (often because the refill tube is misplaced, but adjustments are also a factor).

    Toto doesn't make their fill valves, at least in the USA, they are made for them by Korky. Toto's replacement (universal) fill valve IS adjustable so it can allow them to stock one repair part, but that almost identical valve is also available from Korky.

    I personally, don't care if you flush your toilet after use, unless I was a regular visitor to your home, and that's not likely. Lot's of people have different opinions, and I don't have a problem with that...just pointing out why it may not be a great idea. Your home, your choice.
     
  9. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    You seem to be missing the point that if you add anything to the bowl it will raise the WL. If my WL is low, adding solids which if anything can be a problem to flush will naturally raise the WL closer to full and a better flushing action by your description.

    As long as I don't postpone flushing to at/past the overflow point, I don't see a problem. I do have a good sense of smell and flush every time when I have visitors. ;)
     
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    It doesn't bother me when people aren't flushing in other states, the prevailing winds are from West to East.
     
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    I didn't miss your point...it all depends on how low it is, how many deposits are made, and when you end up flushing. By design, the flushing action works best if it is full when flushed. The only way to ensure that happens is if it is adjusted properly in the first place. Then, unless evaporation or the dog lower the level, it's going to be as good as it can get (and on some toilets, that's lousy, but that's another story altogether).
     
  12. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

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    If you have a sensitive nose, here's one for you.

    Some years ago I was having a problem with a racoon getting into my plastic trash containers. I used bungee cords across the lids but then it tried chewing its way in. Did some searching and found a site for solutions to critter problems. It seems that the racoon's natural enemy is the coyote. This site sold all kinds of deterents but for racoons, it was coyote urine pellets. So I ordered a few pouches and some kind-of containers for the substance.

    I received the stuff. I made one big mistake, I cut open one the aluminum foil pouches while I was in my basement! OMG, I couldn't get outside fast enough. When I did, my neighbor was outside with her dog. The dog started to bark at me and take a defensive stance.

    She asked what I had to make her dog go nuts. I told her but she said that she couldn't smell it. She stuck her nose right inside the pouch and still couldn't smell it. She said that she had a sinus problem, I guess so?

    I still a have a pouch or two. If you like, I'll send you one. Sure to clear a crowded room in less than a minute! :D
     
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh no. Please don't. That's one thing that works pretty well for me; sense of smell. Sometimes it's a curse.
    My favorite super power is hearing a leaking toilet valve when I go to homes. They think I'm kidding until they get their next water bill.
    I get offers to work on sewage ejectors, and I can't get myself to do them. I have used a respirator while cleaning a grease trap, and that worked out okay. Without that, I was gagging.
     
  14. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    Some People are proud of their Masterpieces and want to share with others. Some people even take pictures and post on the internet. Can you say twisted ?

    A big floater and / or mellow yellow don't impress me tho.

    If I want to save water then I water my trees.
     
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    IMHO, a much better way to save a little bit of water is to cut 30-seconds or so off your shower, and if you really like marathon ones, cut down more. Don't leave the water running while you brush your teeth, and use a dishwasher rather than rinsing and hand washing. There are other, low-impact (as in change of habit) things you can do, too. WHen I was in London one time, they had big posters in the 'Tube' saying to save water, pee in the shower rather than the toilet (while showering, hopefully obviously!). That works, too.
     
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    We just pulled this bowl, and the trapway is covered in salt.

    [​IMG]

    The drain three feet down was salt closing off half of the pipe. We had to take a stick of copper pipe and break it out.
    The old toilet got thrown out, and a new one installed.
     
  17. Plumbs Away

    Plumbs Away Member

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    Not flushing the toilet is just nasty -- whether it's feces or urine. Contrary to what many a man (and some women) would like to think, it is damaging to the fixture and the drain piping. This doesn't even address that it's unsanitary, unhygienic and just plain ignorant. Someone posted above about the smell. Cut your corners elsewhere, but flush the damn toilet when you use it.
     
  18. fullysprinklered

    fullysprinklered Member

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    I never gave salt in urine a second thought. Then I went camping up in the mountains with my second wife, early 90's. Found a nice spot by a creek and backed my truck/camper into the mountain laurels and claimed my spot. First thing I did when I got out of my truck was to take a much needed whiz after several hours on the road. A short time later, my wet spot was covered with bees and they stayed there for two days scarfing up the salts.

    Now if you really want to save water, do what my friend Harvey does. I'll have to post a disclaimer at the point because I haven't actually witnessed this event, but Harvey doesn't lie, as a rule. Anyway, when it's time for a bath, apparently he shucks down in the kitchen, throws a wet washrag in the microwave for 15 seconds and takes a bird bath right there. How green is that? Also, his water heater makes popcorn and rejuvenates leftovers.
     
  19. Derek87

    Derek87 New Member

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    really interesting thread especially for this californian reading whose governor officially requested residents to adopt the mellow yellow principle given our record drought conditions.

    my parents had us do this growing up and have yet to discover problems in their 40 year old toilets (but who knows what lurks beneath), and i didn't notice any notable deposits in one year of such behavior when our Sterling builder toilet was replaced with a Toto Ultramax II last weekend.

    i'm wondering if a moderate "in between" behavior is reasonable. i certainly would think that letting it mellow overnight to not disturb ones spouse couldn't cause any short term harm...maybe long term (as in 40-50 years), but i'm hoping nothing noticeable for a couple of decades.
     

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