Kohler Wellworth & Memoirs toilet help

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by NewHere, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. NewHere

    NewHere New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    PA
    Hi, I am new here (hense my screen name) & we are building a new home. Our builder only offers Kohler toilets & we are considering upgrading to the Wellworth 1.28 gpf standard height k-3998 for our kids bathroom & Memoirs 1.28 gpf comfort height k-3816 for our master bath & powder room.

    Our primary concern is that we want a toilet that best minimizes (if not completely eliminates) the occurrence of clogs from various reasons (solids, toilet paper, etc)...my husband says he will only consider paying more for a toilet if it will eliminate (or substantially reduce) the amount of times it clogs & requires plunging. It seems like the Kohler class 5 toilets are best option Kohler makes for this concern. (The class 6 is not available through my builder).

    I was searching the Kohler website and still have some questions about these toilets. I am hoping some of the knowledgeable people here could help (I apologize in advance if my terminology is off).

    1. Are the 1.28 gpf toilets truly as efficient or better at flushing various scenarios (solids, toilet paper, etc) as the 1.6 gpf models (I guess I have the assumption that more water helps the toilet contents go down)?
    2. If we flush by quickly pressing the lever & releasing, how many gallons per flush would this triger for the 1.28 gpf models?
    3. If we hold down the lever for a bit longer, what will the gallon per flush be & How long would we need to hold down the lever to do this?
    4. I believe I read that you can flush a Kohler toilet twice to help the toilet contents go down, is this true? Do we need to wait til the toilet stops "running" or can it be flushed again immediately?

    Any other tips or comments about the Wellworth and/or Memoirs toilets are welcome, as we need to make this decision in the next few days! Thanks so much in advance!
  2. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    Well, for the money, pay a little bit extra and get a TOTO Drake. Much better performance and you can also get a 1.6 gallon per flush model. I recommend if you are going to get a TOTO to pay the extra 40 bucks and get Sanagloss, cleans the bowl a lot better. Also, Kohler's testing standards aren't as high as TOTO's. And last but not least, quality, the quality of TOTO is so good that it is actually made in USA. Also that the TOTO fills A LOT quicker than a Kohler does. I mean Kohler is a good toilet but most people like Terry will recommend TOTO. Here is a side by side comparison of bowl rinse against the Kohler Class 5 and the TOTO Drake. Just remember that the guy might say Cimarron but it's still a class 5 flush. Good luck with your new toilet! :)




    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,850
    Location:
    New York, NY
    There's no reason that your builder can't put in another brand. Or have him delete the toilet, order one, and put it in yourself. On a brand-new, correctly-installed flange and 12" rough-in, it's a 30 minute or less job to do it yourself. Consider the Toto Drake II as a great value that will last a long time. Then you won't be talking about stuff like "holding down the handle". The problem, as I explain over and over and over, is that "adding water" to the flush won't do a damn thing if the bowl isn't well-designed. I had a horrible Kohler that you could drain the whole tank into, but it made no difference because once it is clogged it is clogged regardless of how much water follows it into the bowl. And design of the trapway (the porcelain path that things follow out of the bowl into the floor flange) in the bowl is the critical issue as to whether it is going to clog.

    In short, stop planning how to double flush or hold down the handle or other tricks, and just buy a toilet that works right the first time every time, like the Toto Drake II. Google CST454CEFG and have a look at the photos and reviews.
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,347
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    It's your house and your money. Tell the contractor to get a Toto.
  5. GoKohlerGo

    GoKohlerGo Brand New Plumber

    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Michigan
    I think Kohler would be a bit better.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The new Kohler bowls have been improved over previous years. I think you will be fine either way.
    If the builder is spec'ing Kohler for the toilets, Wellworth and Cimarron, you should be fine. There is no guarantee against plugging any bowl. Keep away from papers like Charmin. Nothing does Charmin very well.
    If you are in the 1% with medical issues, then something pressure assist or Caroma will do.
    For the 99% that are medically just fine, the class five will be enough for you.
  7. NewHere

    NewHere New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    PA
    Thank you everyone for your time & replies!

    Terry & gokohlergo, thank you for your input! It definitely makes me feel more confident paying extra to upgrade our toilets to the class 5 technology over the standard toilets (kohler sterling windham).

    Starwarsith88, was that Kohler class 5 video from one of the more recent models with the improved rinse? I'll admit that the Toto drake video is very impressive! Thanks for the visual comparison.

    Wjcandee & gary swart, the builder is Toll Brothers & unfortunately they seem pretty inflexible when it comes to obtaining products from different manufacturers than those they typically offer. They offer no credit for standards not taken & will not close on a house without toilets, so I would need to get the standard Kohler Sterling installed & then arrange the purchase & changing out the 4 toilets in our new home after we close...my husband is not handy at all to do the instal himself & having to hire someone to complete projects like this in a brand new home is something that he is not willing to do.

    Any additional input is welcome & appreciated as well!
  8. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    I actually live right near Toll Brothers newer houses! Also, the Kohler hasn't improved that much as the TOTO is still much more impressive, your little ones might clog the Kohler, I remember when I was little and I ALWAYS clogged the kohler and I am now almost 12, and with the Kohler, you can't use a regular plunger, with the Kohler, we had to use an auger (snake). And no I will never push anyone with the TOTO, I think it's just a better product. And if so, just install the toilet yourself and buy it at the Plumbing Supply Store. Anyways, good luck with your new house!

    P.S.
    I have 3 TOTO's and love them!
  9. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    If so, i'd just get the sterling windham then just get the TOTO's.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,850
    Location:
    New York, NY
    NewHere -- understood. Good luck and enjoy your new home! You are correct that the standard toilets are garbage. When you look at the upgrade charges, at least price out the toilets at a web site like Home Depot to get an idea of what is a ripoff and what isn't in terms of the upcharge the builder is proposing. Maybe there's some room to negotiate on price. And for what it's worth, it's easy enough to have the toilets you want (e.g. Toto) delivered to the job site; maybe if you offer to do that, they would install them. (Or maybe they won't. Sucks that they are that inflexible.)
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