Kerdi or NobleDeck: Which is better for a Florida Barrier Free Shower with tree root issues?

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JohnfrWhipple

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Kerdi or NobleDeck: Which is better?

So my latest client is from Florida and is building a barrier free shower in his new home. The big surprise on demo day was an envision of tree roots. They have since been removed and some kind of root killer applied.

He asked me what I thought about a Kerdi Shower kit for this build. I told him I don't like the foam based kits at all. Not the ones from Schluter. Not the ones from Noble Company. Not the ones from Fin Pan. Not Durocks or Laticrete's. I told him to avoid them all like the plaque.

With tree roots I worry about tiny roots making there way back looking for moisture. What would be better for a basement barrier free shower build?

Kerdi with a 2" overlap set with non modified thin-set

or

NobleDeck set as one piece and tied into a clamping drain.


Kerdi is 8mils or 8/1000" thick

Your Credit Card is 30 mils or 30/1000" thick

NobleDeck is 40 mils or 40/1000" thick.


The Kerdi is only 3' wide roughly and Noble Deck is 6'

What do you think men? If the Kerdi is installed perfectly and every seam done just right it should hold water. But what if a little leaks through. Then the roots come back. I could see them fighting there way between the layers a little. But with the NobleDeck it is 5 times thicker (than kerdi) and can be clamped under pressure with a clamping drain. This way no roots at all can penetrate a seam one day.

Just a hunch. I have never seen tree roots on demo day. Roberto have you? RSCB - what about you?
 
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JohnfrWhipple

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Photos of root envision: Miami Shower


Roots in old shower pan. Under shower liner...

Miami%2BShower%2BPan%2Bwith%2BTree%2BRoots.png



Tree%2Broots%2Bbarrier%2Bfree%2Bshower.png


Is it me or does it look like the builder of this shower used Plastic as a shower liner?

..
 
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JohnfrWhipple

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Overkill?

Maybe NobleDeck is over kill boys. Perhaps NobleSeal CIS or TS would be fine. I think for the minor difference in price I'd want the 40 mil product.

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Reach4

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Just an idea... how about adding a way to add root killer after construction? If this is an outside wall, how about a PVC or ABS pipe into the dirt that could be filled and refilled with copper sulfate granules or sodium chloride salt. Then any water in the area will reject roots. Or maybe RootX liquid could be poured into the pipe. The pipe would have a cap to keep rain out.

Not speaking from experience... just thinking.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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We are hoping that the roots are killed now Reach. And with a new shower built with a proper waterproofing membrane there should be no more water getting under the old shower.

It appears that the old toilet waste line cracked and caused the bulk of the issues. It's been repaired as well. Crazy the amount of roots.

A friend of mine cut down four trees a few years back. That fall his yard flooded out. We altered learned that each tree can drink up to 200 gallons of water per day or something insane like that.

I bet the tree that was getting feed this water is going to look else where for a drink once a new Noble Shower goes in....

..
 

Jadnashua

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Any PROPERLY installed shower should avoid that issue of enticing root growth. As John always says (and the industry guidelines call for) if the shower passes the flood test, why would you expect any moisture to get out where it shouldn't? So, if you build it properly, it's dealer's choice - ANY shower construction method should work. Where the humidity tends to be high, there are good reasons to consider a surface applied membrane, but if you have good ventilation, even that is not required for it to work.

Is a glass window more likely to leak with 1/2" plate glass than one with 1/8" more typical window glass? No, it's how you put it together that makes the difference, and in FL, once you've put your hurricane shutters on them, no more susceptible to damage (like putting tile over it) than the 1/2" plate glass. Thickness in a liner has both good and bad points. Being over 3X thicker also means your corners and seams are just that much thicker and with a smaller tile, more likely to create a bump.
 

ShowerDude

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Stumped....

May consider digging down a bit and pouring a reinforced bedslab and removing more roots? Maybe could cap the bedslab with noble deck? Build on top of that?? Of course ive never done any work in florida and would have to look closer at all that!


Very interesting dilemma there.......
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Isn't it. To make it harder it is going to be barrier free.

I have designed the shower build so that the NobleDeck can form the temporary dam and later be bonded down over the NobleSeal CIS that will soon cover the rest of the bathroom.

Like the discussion I showcased here with installing CIS over Ethical Concrete. This build is almost exact.

NobleDeck installed over a recessed concrete prep job is pretty straight forward. The owner will do the form work himself and control the placing of the concrete.
 
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