Is this legal, or will it at least work? Bath rough-in

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by djlazar, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    I did this a year ago and just went back and looked at the pictures. Should I have put a long sweep 90 on the toilet going to the main line? I forgot what my reasoning was at the time but it probably wouldn't have fit and I didn't want to do any more digging...

    Grover house rough in 008.jpg
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,245
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    What is that 2" elbow in the background? You managed to take the picture precisely so it was obscured. If that is for a tub or shower, then it IS both illegal and will not work. IF you had used a "closet bend" it would have had an even "sharper bend" than your elbow so it is okay, but the sanitary tee it goes into is NOT. Your toilet vent is also NOT according to codes. According to your picture, you have a 2x6 sticking INTO the 2" vertical pipe at the left. How did you do that? as fpr the second part, "Will it work", almost every cockamammy idea DIYers come up with "will work" which is why they want to do it their way. The questions then become "how well will it work and for how long".
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  3. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    Here's another picture. That 2 inch elbow in the background comes up from the main drain line and 90s over to a shower drain. The 2x6 is an old wall that got cut out and replaced. The 2 inch vent pipe goes up through the wall. So what's the worst case scenario and how should it be fixed?? Here's another picture.

    Easter 2011 013.jpg
  4. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    The reason I went with the 2 inch vent is because I wanted to make the wall a 2x4 wall. Plumber said it was okay to have the vent pipe 1/2 diameter of the toilet pipe. Probably should have done 3 inch for the toilet, but the existing one was 4 inch so I replaced what was there.
  5. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Just a fellow DIYer here, but I believe you should have used a double-wye where you have that sweep 90, and then a 45 or whatever to get the toilet line over to it. A sanitary tee should never be used horizontally, and the one you have there for the toilet line could be troublesome since solids can stick at the turn and you have no cross-flow to help keep it clear.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  6. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    I see your point about the tee. I didn't do my homework before doing that. That would be easy to dig back up. What about that shower drain? It comes up from the main pipe about a foot then 90s over to the bathtub p trap about 4 feet over. Is that going to cause me problems draining? (I haven't used the house yet)
  7. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,236
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    While I agree that the sanitary tee should not be used on it's side or back, (wye fittings are always used on horizontal) I would be more concerned about the improper/lack of venting. If that is a dry vent, it will be clogged the first time there is the slightest backup. The shower/tub is also not vented. All vents must rise vertically until they are at least 6" above the flood rim of the highest fixture served. I am sorry to tell you that the best thing you could do is cut all of that plumbing out and start over.

    Here is a nice link to Bert Polk's plumbing tips- http://www.co.lincoln.or.us/planning/plumbing/apps/plumbingguide.pdf
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  8. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    That 2 inch is actually a drain for a sink as well as the vent. Does that make a difference? And what about the tub? The bathtub has that little vent thing on it. I thought that was the vent for the tub.
  9. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    The toilet can be wet vented through the lavatory drain, but bend at the bottom of the vertical stack should be a long-turn 90 or a pair of 45s. The connection of the wet vent to the main line should made with a wye which should be downstream of the water closet.

    The tub must have a vent located downstream of the trap. The tub's overflow is not a vent, it is an overflow.
  10. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    How far downstream of the trap is it supposed to be vented? (i could have just googled it but it's easier to just ask)
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    The better question is "how far away from the trap can the vent be?". That depends on the diameter of the pipe - the larger the pipe, the further away the vent can be. Ideally, the vent is at the point where the trap arm enters the drain, but there is some leaway depending on the pipe diameter. The vent must come off the trap arm before it turns down to vertical AND within the max distance.
  12. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    Okay, did my homework, can't find it. With a 2 inch drain pipe, how far away from the trap can the vent be? It goes from horizontal to vertical after about 2 1/2 to 3 feet away from the trap right now.
    Here's my plan, someone tell me if there is a problem with this. I plan on cutting out the 90 where the tub drain goes from horizontal to vertical and adding a 2x2x1 1/2 fitting, then taking the vent pipe up about a foot, put a 90, and sloping down a little and tying into the 2 inch main vent that goes up to the sink. I'm sure that's not code but I don't want to cut out any sheetrock.
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    I think with a 2" pipe, it has to be within 5', so IF I'm correct, that part is okay. BUT, a vent, like a drain must not have a place where moisture could accumulate (i.e., it CANNOT go up/down/up - it must contain a continuous path for moisture to flow should any get into that pipe) plus, code says it must go at least 6" above any other drains in that run OR 42" above the floor, whichever is higher before it can go horizontal. Any rain, snowmelt, condensation, etc. that gets into that pipe where it goes back down for a bit will accumulate, block it off, and make it inoperative. Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet if you want it done right.
  14. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,236
    Location:
    Land of Cheese

    It's funny, because I just googled "Oklahoma Plumbing Code" and the first site listed has a PDF of the entire code. In the 2006 IPC, venting is covered in chapter 9, and the information you are looking for is in section 906 & table 906.1.

    I suggest you spend some time reading the entire chapter. It's fairly clear as to what you have to do.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  15. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    I know what the code book says. Don't really give a damn about the code book. I was going to go up about a foot, then 90 over (with a slope) to the vent for the toilet/sink. I was just wondering if anyone saw a potential problem, other than the drain clogging and the vent getting full of water during a flood, in which case a vent full of water is the least of my problems. This is a house, not a commercial project.

    Mike Holmes may "do it right" but he has sponsors and an unlimited budget. Honestly, does anyone on here do plumbing for a living? The most helpful posts I've read on here are from other diy'ers. Out of our entire local, I know of 1 guy that quotes the code book, other than 3rd year apprentices that want to show off how much they've learned.
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,759
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Your pictures of the existing plumbing, like hj has mentioned are a bit obscure.
    We don't have a clear picture of what you intend to do.
    For these reasons, the pros tend to skip over it.

    Are you really a licensed electrician? I would expect more respect for building codes if you were.
    The cost to do it right, and the way you have suggested is going to McDonalds for lunch a few times.
    We're not talking killer amounts of money. It's more about "choosing" the correct fittings to assemble that mess. Or, it wouldn't be a mess if hj or I had done the work.

    Distance from the trap to vent
    1.5" 42"
    2.0" 60"
    3.0" 72"

    The lav can wet vent the tub, as long as that is within 42"
    You can trap arm over the lav a combined 42" distance too, so if it were installed locally to both, you could trap arm over and catch both.

    Some codes don't care about a toilet vent, but I like them for several reasons. For one, I like the water in the bowl to be calm except when tempted by flipping the flush handle.

    If you choose to vent the toilet, a wye fitting would be nice.
    Someone mentioned Bert Polks pdf on plumbing. It's killer information, and should be studied by anyone that wants to think like a tradesman. Kudo's to Bert!
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  17. djlazar

    djlazar Electrician

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Norman, OK
    Thanks! I read that pdf. Wish I would have read it before I started.
  18. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,236
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    I'm sorry you feel that way.

    I am a DIY. I look at the code as the instruction book for how to do something correctly. Sometimes I need some help with the interpretation, and that is where this forum is priceless.
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,245
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; Honestly, does anyone on here do plumbing for a living?

    I have to go away right now, but I will be back to answer your questions, because I HAVE BEEN "doing plumbing for a living" for over 60 years, and your attitude is starting to rankle me.

    1. If you "don't care about the stinkin' codes" why did you even ask a question. If the pipes go "downhill" the water will drain.
    2. Your shower is using an "S" trap which is illegal under any codes, but since you do not care about them, leave it the way you have it.
    3. The sanitary tee is also "illegal" but the same logic applies
    4. A "flooded vent" may NOT be the only problem. Under the right conditions a "low vent" can become a secondary drain line.
    5. Mike Holmes is a jerk. His solution to everything is to "tear it out" and redo it HIS WAY.
    6. If no one in your area knows the code, except third year apprentices, then I can understand why you don't care about the code, because they probably also do it the "easy way".
    7. When I was a third year apprenctice, I was NOT quoting the code, I was telling the journeymen how to do the jobs and scheduling them.
    8. When I was an apprentice we had the plumbing inspector for neighboring city working for us, and I fired him. Anyone who got a few beers into him afterwards, and then asked him about "apprentices" got an earful about "that apprentice who thinks he knows everything and I have been a plumber for 30 years".
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  20. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    We might sometimes seem more friendly, but that is just part of the overall dynamic here. These guys know their stuff, and this site would be nothing without them.
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Remodel Forum & Blog DIY Legally Jan 20, 2009

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