How good are Toto toilets? Are they really all that?

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davenorth

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Sliding back to the topic at hand, I recently downloaded the latest MaP report and was puzzled to find that none of the Totos rated at the top in this regard. I'd be interested in hearing comments -- is performance just not as important as a low defect rate? Is a particularly high MaP rating unimportant as a measure of performance? Does the MaP system have a built-in bias of some sort?

Dave
 

Terry

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The MaP only tests one thing.

And even John Koeller says that 500 grams is all you need.

He also said that some manufacturers had found out how to ace his limited version testing of the bowl, sometimes by leaving out bowl rinse.

The test does not rate:

Bowl cleanliness
Quality
Percentage of returns.
Whether the flush handle sticks against the inside of the tank
Whether there are any replacement parts.
How long any of the parts last
How much shimming the bowl will need on a flat floor
Whether the bowl leans to one side
Consistency, they test only one bowl, Which means they may have tested a better then average or less then average bowl for that model.

Would you buy a Chevy Nova with two valves per cylinder because it had more cubic inches?
I wouldn't.

1969%20Chevy%20Nova%20All%20Green.jpg

Really big engine, with drum brakes.
Get's 1000 on the MaP test.
The winner!
or you have the homeowner favorite Toto Drake
[video=youtube;CmuzFve6O4k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmuzFve6O4k[/video]
The MaP rated the TOTO MS854114 at 325 grams
I had one installed for two years without plugging it.
I had to find a plunger in the truck, that wasn't one in the house.
I installed four in the church I go to.
It was a great toilet.
But not according to MaP

The MaP had rated the Kohler Cimarron at 650 grams.
That one plugged weekly.

But then, that was a home and a church.
Those weren't in the MaP limited testing facility.

I also have a customer that has several daycares.
He mainly puts in Toto Drake, though he did try the Niagara Flapperless and the Cadet 3
He now only puts in Toto Drake, even though he pays more.
 
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CCNA_Dad

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I had to remove and replace 20% of the American Standard toilets I've been selling.
That means two or three extra trips.

I have had to remove and replace less then 1% fo the Toto products I'm selling.

Wish I'd read this post before letting my plumber convince me to go with an American Standard Cadet 3 instead of a Toto for the same price. Bought two AS toilets. One is working, the other flushes right only about half the time, and often splashes dirty water onto the floor and/or the person flushing the toilet. And the plumber says that's "good enough" and isn't covered under warranty. Needless to say I'll never buy American Standard or hire "The Honest Plumber" again.
 

WJcandee

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Wish I'd read this post before letting my plumber convince me to go with an American Standard Cadet 3 instead of a Toto for the same price. Bought two AS toilets. One is working, the other flushes right only about half the time, and often splashes dirty water onto the floor and/or the person flushing the toilet. And the plumber says that's "good enough" and isn't covered under warranty. Needless to say I'll never buy American Standard or hire "The Honest Plumber" again.

The good news is that on this forum, if you look around, you can find lots of DIY advice. If you had a plumber recently install a toilet, the prep work has been done, and all you have to do is remove your AS toilet, drop a new wax ring on the floor, and put a new Toto on top. Lots of us on here spent a happy afternoon doing that as their first DIY plumbing project. So if you ever decide to replace that AS, just get a bid on something like a CST744S (or the 1.28gpf version CST744E) Original Toto Drake from your local plumbing supply (I recommend calling at least 5 and asking for their best price with model number and color already in hand). You are looking at $220-ish as the typical street price.

Regardless of what your mean-spirited plumber says, YOU are the beneficiary of that toilet's warranty, and I would call and raise hell with AS and demand a new bowl (at least), which you could install yourself or with a buddy. You should also take the time to write a scathing review of that asswipe on Angie's List, Yelp and the like.

Let us know how it works out.

PS Not flushing right half the time could be the result of something as simple the starting water level in the tank or bowl not being correct, or the chain being misadjusted on the flapper, or could be improved by changing out the flapper to something like the Korky adjustable one which might let you get a little more water in the flush. So if you want to explore that with us, feel free.
 
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