Help! Submersible well pump runs but won't build pressure over 30 psi!

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John Howard

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On October 9th of this year I replaced my 3 year old Flotec 1/2HP water well pump that went with a brand new Everbilt 1 HP Submersible 3-Wire 20 GPM pump from Home Depot. This morning I woke up to low water pressure. I thought a pipe busted somewhere so, after doing two hours of search for a water leak, I went to my well house and saw that the pressure gauge was at 30 psi. I could feel the pump was running but the pressure was not going up so, I shut the valve off to the main line to isolate the pressure tank and see if I did have a leak down line somewhere. After 5 minutes of the pump running, there was still no increase of pressure. I turned the power to the pump off and waited for 5 minutes and turned it back on. The pump started pumping and gaining pressure for about 30 seconds and then started whirring (don't know how else to say it) and then went back to a low hum and the pressure stopped climbing. Again, I turn the power off for 5 minutes and repeated. The same thing happened. After five attempts like this the pressure was at 42 psi.

I don't know what the problem could be. Please help!
 

Reach4

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Could be hole in the pipe in the well. Could be failed pump. Could be out of water.
What happens to the water pressure when you turnoff the pump? If it drops to near zero, is there a topside checkvalve? If the pressure does not drop and there is no topside checkvalve, that would mean there is not a hole in the pipe.

Can you measure current, preferably with a clamp-around ammeter? Current drops when you run out of water.
 

John Howard

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Could be hole in the pipe in the well. Could be failed pump. Could be out of water.
What happens to the water pressure when you turnoff the pump? If it drops to near zero, is there a topside checkvalve? If the pressure does not drop and there is no topside checkvalve, that would mean there is not a hole in the pipe.

Can you measure current, preferably with a clamp-around ammeter? Current drops when you run out of water.


There is no hole in the well pipe. There is no pressure drop when the pump is off. I don't have a way to measure amp draw.
 

Reach4

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20 GPM is a very high volume pump for a house.

Do you know how far down your water is? Your pump would have a hard time pumping to higher pressures, even at zero flow, if the water is 120 ft down. I would think that might not be an appropriate pump to select if the water drops to more than 60 ft or so.

If you use a strong new fishing line and a weight to measure the water depth, don't use lead. Newer fishing weights are not lead.
 

John Howard

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Well is 110 feet deep. Water level is 30 feet from surface. Pump is at 95 feet deep. This well has been in operation for 3 years with a 1/2 HP pump (as I stated in my original post) so logic would dictate that a 1 hp is not undersized. Try to remember when you respond that this is not a new well system. It is an fully functional well system that the pump has been recently replaced on. This will help answer most common question that might arise, without the need to ask them, and allow us to focus on issues that pertain to the problem.
 

Reach4

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Well is 110 feet deep. Water level is 30 feet from surface. Pump is at 95 feet deep. This well has been in operation for 3 years with a 1/2 HP pump (as I stated in my original post) so logic would dictate that a 1 hp is not undersized.
A 1/2 HP 5 GPM pump would typically produce the same pressure from the same depth as a 20 GPM 1 HP pump.

Sometimes water tables drop. I think you observed that if you rest the well, turn on the pump, the sound changes after a bit coincident with the pressure rise slowing. That could be compatible with the well being down. An ammeter could see a current drop if you are running out of water. Can you look down the hole with a bright flashlight and see if the water looks like it is only 30 ft or so down?

If your circle of friends doesn't have a clamp-on ammeter, it may be time to buy one if you are going to do your own troubleshooting.

If the water table did not drop, then your new pump is probably failing.

I am not a pro.
 

Boycedrilling

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Ok, let's analyze this as much as possible, with the information you have given.

You have a well 110 ft deep, swl is 30 ft. Pump setting is 95 ft, 65 ft under water.

You had a Flotec 1/2 hp pump in the well. It lasted 3 years and failed? Ok 1st question, what was the failure? Why that pump failed may have a bearing on the present problem. Was the Flotec a 2 wire or 3 wire pump?

You replaced the old 1/2 hp pump with an Everbilt brand 1 hp 20 gom 3 wire pump. The previous pump did not pump 20 gpm. It probably wasn't rated at more than 10 gpm. So you've installed a pump that can pump at least twice as much water. It also draw twice the amperage as before. Are the breakers and wire sizes adequate for the 1 hp pump. Did you make a change from a 2 wire to a 3 wire motor and add a control box, or was the previous pump also a 3 wire. If the old pump was a 3 wire did you try to reuse the old control box or did you install a new properly sized control box.

Really do need to know amperage draw on the motor to knowledgably diagnose the problem also.

Flotec, Everbilt, what could be the problem??!!???
 

John Howard

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A 1/2 HP 5 GPM pump would typically produce the same pressure from the same depth as a 20 GPM 1 HP pump.

Sometimes water tables drop. I think you observed that if you rest the well, turn on the pump, the sound changes after a bit coincident with the pressure rise slowing. That could be compatible with the well being down. An ammeter could see a current drop if you are running out of water. Can you look down the hole with a bright flashlight and see if the water looks like it is only 30 ft or so down?

If your circle of friends doesn't have a clamp-on ammeter, it may be time to buy one if you are going to do your own troubleshooting.

If the water table did not drop, then your new pump is probably failing.

I am not a pro.


This water well has been stable through out the worst drought in Texas history and this year has been the wettest in 30 years. The water table is not the problem. That I am sure of. There was no draw on the well all night and the low water pressure was noticed first thing in the morning, so there is no chance for it be a lack of water problem. When the well is full, it has almost 80 cubic feet of water in the hole. It is a 10 inch hole hole.

According to the installation manual wire chart , the prop wire size for a pump installation that is 937 feet from the power source (Electric meter pole) is 8 AWG copper. My Pump is 725 feet from the power pole and is supplied by 4 AWG aluminum. I don't think I should have an amperage problem.
 

Boycedrilling

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Ok if you've got a 10" well, your not pulling the water level down and sucking air with in a few seconds, even with a pump that pumps twice as much water.

Your wire from the pole is sized adequatly, you upsize 2 wire sizes when using aluminum, so #4 aluminum is ok.

Everything is pointing to an electrical problem.
 

Reach4

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Did you make a change from a 2 wire to a 3 wire motor and add a control box, or was the previous pump also a 3 wire.
What would happen if the run winding and the start winding was accidentally swapped? Would the pump run backwards? Is there any other miswiring that could let the pump run but poorly? Of course that wouldn't explain the pump appearing to run properly for a month.
 

John Howard

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Ok, let's analyze this as much as possible, with the information you have given.

You have a well 110 ft deep, swl is 30 ft. Pump setting is 95 ft, 65 ft under water.

You had a Flotec 1/2 hp pump in the well. It lasted 3 years and failed? Ok 1st question, what was the failure? Why that pump failed may have a bearing on the present problem. Was the Flotec a 2 wire or 3 wire pump?

You replaced the old 1/2 hp pump with an Everbilt brand 1 hp 20 gom 3 wire pump. The previous pump did not pump 20 gpm. It probably wasn't rated at more than 10 gpm. So you've installed a pump that can pump at least twice as much water. It also draw twice the amperage as before. Are the breakers and wire sizes adequate for the 1 hp pump. Did you make a change from a 2 wire to a 3 wire motor and add a control box, or was the previous pump also a 3 wire. If the old pump was a 3 wire did you try to reuse the old control box or did you install a new properly sized control box.

Really do need to know amperage draw on the motor to knowledgably diagnose the problem also.

Flotec, Everbilt, what could be the problem??!!???

I bought a new control box for the pump, the one recommended by Home Depot for use with this pump.

I upgraded to a 1HP for several reasons. Mostly because my 1/2 hp only lasted 3 years and I figured that if I went with a stronger pump, it would last longer because it would not have to work as hard. Second reason was because I have 100 gallon pressure tank and the old 1/2 HP, 10 GPM pump took for ever to fill it up and could not keep up with high usage intervals, like when washing clothes and taking baths at the same time. The 1hp pump is a 20-GPM pump so I felt it would be better able to handle high usage intervals.

I have been here since 2007 and I have not had a pump last more then 3 years. I was on a different well (borrowed from neighboring land owner) until 2012. The water here is absurdly hard at around 1000 ppm, mostly calcium and iron. I believe this is one of the reasons the pumps burn out. All previous pumps quite working due to motor failure. I did a ton of research trying to find a pump that would last longer before I bought this everbilt and the general consensus is that all modern submersible are engineered to fail within 5 years (Designed Obsolescence), and a pump that will last 20 years (Like they did last century) cannot be found at any price. I purchased this Everbuilt because it had a 3 year warranty and the ones sold at Lowes and Tractor Supply only had a 1 year warranty. I figured that it had to be built at least a little better if the manufacturer was willing to risk giving it a 3 year warranty.


Here are my well stats.

Well Depth = 110 feet
Pump depth = 95 feet
Distance to water = 30 feet (From surface to water)
Well hole diameter = 10 inches
Total water volume = 79.6 Cubic feet.
Well production rate = 3 Gallons Per Minute
Pressure switch On/Off = 60/40 psi
Pressure Tank = 100 Gallon (Two 50 gallon tanks in tandem. This reduces rapid cycling).
Power Source = Power Grid
Supply Wire = 4 AWG Aluminum
Distance to Pole = 725 feet (from Power pole to the well)


Hopefully this will help.
 
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Reach4

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That is quite a nice large diameter well for a home. Can you look down and estimate the water height now?

I upgraded to a the 1HP for several reasons. Mostly because my 1/2 hp only lasted 3 years and I figured that if I went with a stronger pump, it would last longer because it would not have to work as hard.
It does not work that way.
Second reason was because I have 100 gallon pressure tank and the old 1/2 HP, 10 GPM pump took for ever to fill it up and could not keep up with high usage intervals, like when washing clothes and taking baths at the same time.
It does work that way! It's good that you have enough pressure tank. A 12 or 15 gallon pump might be better for the future. Taking at least a minute to run each time is good, but 2 minutes is better.
 

PumpMd

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I would do a pressure test at your well head. Rig up something like what is in the pictures. It lets you know if your problem is down in the well.
 

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Craigpump

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Without an Amprobe and a setup to pressure test the pipe and pump while they're in the well you're at a severe disadvantage. You also have way more pump than that well can support without some type of run dry protection.

Not being onsite makes it tough for the best of us to properly diagnose the problem, but my guess is that the Home Depot pump is junk, is plugged with calcium and/iron or possibly it's running on 115volts.
 

John Howard

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For those of you that are concerned about the GPM of the pump vs the pproduction rate of the well. Here are some numbers you need to take into consideration.

Don't make the wrong assumption that capacity equals demand, or in other words, don't assume that because the pump can pump 20 GPM, that I am using 20 GPM. This is not practical reasoning. You have to consider these factor into the equation as well. The well has a reserve storage capacity of almost 58 cubic feet of water. The pump is at 100 feet which gives it 40 cubic feet of reserve water. 1 cubic foot of water = 7.48 gallons. So, 40 X 7.48 = 299 gallons (reserve water volume in the well above the pump). 299 divided by 20 = 14.92. So the pump could run wide open (under no head or tank pressure) for 15 minutes before it would exhaust just the reserve water. During that time period though, the well would have produced another 45 gallons of water (3 GPM X 15). This is not even calculating in the head and tank pressure which reduces the production rate of the pump to way below 20 GPM. The bottom line is, I would have to run the pump wide open for a bare minimum of 17 minutes to run the well dry. This will never happen because the pump is on a pressure tank system (with 100 feet of head) and the pump will only run long enough to build the pressure in the tank, which on a 100 gallon system like mine, might require 30 or 40 gallons to accomplish.

I am not saying that running the well dry can never happen, but it would not be because of the GPM capacity of the pump that caused it. It would be something unusual, like filling up a swimming pool or something. I don't have a swimming pool and I don't water my lawn (ever). Washing clothes and taking a bath at the same time is the heaviest demand this system will ever see, and while the demand may exceed 3 gpm during that short time period, there is way more then enough reserve in the well to make up the difference. So, the that I have a 5 gpm draw for a period of time, if the well is producing 3 gpm, then that is just a 2 gallon deficit and with 299 gallons of reserve, it would be a long time before the well went dry.

NOTE: I cam back and edited this because I made some miscalculations and forgot to subtract the 30 foot of well at the top of the well that does not contain water. But the main point I was making is still valid and is uneffected by this miscalculation.
 
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PumpMd

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3gpm well with a 10gpm pump at 95ft, how long would take for you to pump your static water level to 95ft because if you are a heavy water user, a 1/2hp motor will struggle itself to death. Having a big diameter well, I would think that it might not be getting the proper cooling it needs across the motor as well. Those are 2 possibilities what could be going with your short cheap motor lives.
 

PumpMd

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Here is some info on water flow across the motor on the diameter size of your well.
 

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What you can do to fix the problem
 

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DonL

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For those of you that are concerned about the GPM of the pump vs the pproduction rate of the well. Here are some numbers you need to take into consideration.

Don't make the wrong assumption that capacity equals demand, or in other words, don't assume that because the pump can pump 20 GPM, that I am using 20 GPM. This is not practical reasoning. You have to consider these factor into the equation as well. The well has a reserve storage capacity of almost 58 cubic feet of water. The pump is at 100 feet which gives it 40 cubic feet of reserve water. 1 cubic foot of water = 7.48 gallons. So, 40 X 7.48 = 299 gallons (reserve water volume in the well above the pump). 299 divided by 20 = 14.92. So the pump could run wide open (under no head or tank pressure) for 15 minutes before it would exhaust just the reserve water. During that time period though, the well would have produced another 45 gallons of water (3 GPM X 15). This is not even calculating in the head and tank pressure which reduces the production rate of the pump to way below 20 GPM. The bottom line is, I would have to run the pump wide open for a bare minimum of 17 minutes to run the well dry. This will never happen because the pump is on a pressure tank system (with 100 feet of head) and the pump will only run long enough to build the pressure in the tank, which on a 100 gallon system like mine, might require 30 or 40 gallons to accomplish.

I am not saying that running the well dry can never happen, but it would not be because of the GPM capacity of the pump that caused it. It would be something unusual, like filling up a swimming pool or something. I don't have a swimming pool and I don't water my lawn (ever). Washing clothes and taking a bath at the same time is the heaviest demand this system will ever see, and while the demand may exceed 3 gpm during that short time period, there is way more then enough reserve in the well to make up the difference. So, the that I have a 5 gpm draw for a period of time, if the well is producing 3 gpm, then that is just a 2 gallon deficit and with 299 gallons of reserve, it would be a long time before the well went dry.

NOTE: I cam back and edited this because I made some miscalculations and forgot to subtract the 30 foot of well at the top of the well that does not contain water. But the main point I was making is still valid and is uneffected by this miscalculation.

You should see why your pump is stuck using the start winding, Maybe clean the ants out of the control box.

Is the relay switching ?

Good Luck.
 

Valveman

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On October 9th of this year I replaced my 3 year old Flotec 1/2HP water well pump that went with a brand new Everbilt 1 HP Submersible 3-Wire 20 GPM pump from Home Depot. This morning I woke up to low water pressure. I thought a pipe busted somewhere so, after doing two hours of search for a water leak, I went to my well house and saw that the pressure gauge was at 30 psi. I could feel the pump was running but the pressure was not going up so, I shut the valve off to the main line to isolate the pressure tank and see if I did have a leak down line somewhere. After 5 minutes of the pump running, there was still no increase of pressure. I turned the power to the pump off and waited for 5 minutes and turned it back on. The pump started pumping and gaining pressure for about 30 seconds and then started whirring (don't know how else to say it) and then went back to a low hum and the pressure stopped climbing. Again, I turn the power off for 5 minutes and repeated. The same thing happened. After five attempts like this the pressure was at 42 psi.

I don't know what the problem could be. Please help!

Since you can feel and hear the pump running and no water is coming out, I suspect the well is being pumped dry. When you can shut it off for 5 minutes, turn it back on and the pressure increases, it makes me think the well is being pumped dry. With a pressure tank only type system, even though you are not using 20 GPM, the pump is always pumping at 20 GPM while it is running and filling the pressure tank(s). A 50 gallon tank holds about 12 gallons of water, so 2 tanks would hold 24 gallons, making the 20 GPM pump run for just over 1 minute to fill the tanks. A 10 GPM, 1/2HP should have filled those tanks in a little over 2 minutes. If it was taking the 1/2HP a long time to fill the tanks, the problem existed then as well.

Disconnect the pipe at the well or before the pressure tank. Use a couple of 5 gallon buckets to measure how much water comes out before it just stops. If you get more than 25 gallons is should at least be able to fill the pressure tanks. If you get at least 50 gallons then you can stop worrying that the well is being pumped dry and look for a different problem. I would also use a spot light or mirror the sun down the well to see the actual water level while all this is going on. If there is a lot of water visible in the well and the pump quits moving water, you could have a bad check valve or something else blocking the line.

A lot of pumps will last 30 years. Ones like your are what keeps the average life of pumps down to 5-7 years. In big casing a little cooling shroud is a good idea to keep the motor cool, but I don't think it is the problem here. Instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, you might be better off calling an experienced pump installer. His pump and labor will be higher, but they should be able to give you a 5 year warranty, so even if it is twice as expensive you would be better off. Then if they can figure out the real problem, it may last 20 years, and you would be a LOT better off. Call Will at Leonard Water Services in Abilene. I'll bet he can figure it out.
 
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