Help! Clogged Toilet Drain Line and Offset Flange

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DougD

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Hello everybody. This is my first post here. I’m in the middle of a toilet drain crisis and I’m hoping someone can offer some advice.

This house still has about a month of warranty left on it but the builder might not consider this to be a warrantable item. I have posted a detailed explanation and pics below. This isn’t a true emergency just yet but I’m getting worried. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

Doug

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The Situation
This was a brand new house when we moved in 11 months ago. It’s a one-story brick home with a concrete slab foundation. Builder-installed toilets are "ProFlo" brand super high efficiency toilets (1.28gpf) but they would hardly flush anything. I think they were adjusted wrong and set up poorly. I installed new internals & adjusted them so the water line was just below the flush handle. That solved all the problems with the toilet in the master bathroom but not the toilet in the guest bathroom which is located in approximately the geometric center of the house.

This toilet never did have a “vigorous” flush and it's the one in the kid's bathroom. We believed the kids were to blame because it’s been clogging regularly for about a year. I’ve always been able to get it cleared by plunging or using dish soap and warm water. Still, it has never flushed as good as the other toilet. Also, we thought that our 9 year old boy had been "missing" the toilet because we kept seeing moisture on the left side of the toilet (but no obvious leak from that side).

On Christmas Eve, it developed a clog that couldn't be fixed no matter what I did. I "snaked" it with my small drain auger but that didn't work. I even poured acid-based drain opener in there. The best it would do is slowly drain after about 10 minutes.

While I was trying to clear the clog, I noticed a small gap in the caulk on the left side of the toilet base. Water was coming out of that gap when I was plunging the toilet so I knew the wax seal was not intact.

I pulled the whole toilet out and discovered that the vertical drain in the concrete slab was slightly "off.” They used this offset drain to center the toilet in the space between the counter top and the wall. I discovered in my floor. Here’s what I’m looking at:

The left side of the metal ring is completely unsupported and already showing a little bit of rust. There's a big gap underneath it which extends down to and around the left side of the pipe in the slab. In my opinion, the installer also did a bad job with the wax seal and setting up the surface around the flange.

After removing the toilet and exposing the flange, I filled a 5 gallon bucket and poured water directly down the pipe. The water filled up the drain pipe and didn’t go down for several minutes (the vertical portion of the pipe is approx. 8” deep and then it makes a 90 degree turn to the left).

After the water went down, I “snaked” the pipe with my small drain auger. Then I poured about 10 gallons of hot water and heavy soap in there. A few minutes later, I could pour the whole 5 gallon bucket of water in the drain pipe it didn’t back up like it did before. I did this three times in a row as fast as I could without missing the hole and spilling water all over the place.

I brought a water hose inside the bathroom and ran a full-flowing stream of water into the drain pipe for several minutes without any backup of water. However, the water backs up almost immediately when I put a single handful of toilet paper in the pipe along with the flowing water. That tells me there’s still a partial obstruction in the drain line. Water can get through but solid or semi-solid waste cannot.

My Current Theory
The toilet design is inferior and inefficient. I also suspect the kids have “abused” the toilet with too much paper (or maybe a toy or foreign object) - which further hinders the flow from a bad toilet. It’s also possible that some construction debris got in the line during the building process. There’s no way tree roots are blocking the drain line in the front yard.

A friend assures me that the offset flange is not part of the problem though I’m not 100% convinced of that. Assuming the offset flange is not contributing to a slow flow, the problem is a clogged drain pipe caused by:

A. Too much paper, foreign object, etc.

B. Poorly designed toilet with inadequate flushing power

C. Improper installation of toilet with wax ring partially obstructing the opening of the flange

D. A combination of the above​


Tentative Plan
1 – Get a motorized snake and run it down that drain pipe. Run water in the drain while doing this. Ensure the line is truly clear.

2 – Have an experienced plumber look at the offset flange and give me his opinion on it (Hindering flow? Mounted too high? Installed correctly? Replace it or keep it?).

3 – If the offset flange is good to go, get some concrete patch and fill the gap located on the left side of the vertical pipe (under the left side of the metal flange). Let everything set up and dry.

4 – Place some supports in the gap under the metal flange.

5 - Install this toilet I just bought. It’s supposed to be one of the best on the market.

Questions
1 – Is the offset flange part of the problem? If so, what should I do about it?

2 – Is the flange too high for mounting a new toilet?

3 – Is my plan to auger the line a wise move?

4 – Any other thoughts on my situation?
 
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Terry

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I'm not a big fan of the offset flanges, but they can be used. The metal ring should have been secured to the floor though.
You can see if you can secure the flange to the floor, and then use a single wax ring on that. The seal isn't with the metal ring, it's with the plastic. The American Standard you chose will be better than the ProFlo that was installed.
Sometimes an issue with one bowl can be how it come out of the molds. Or there could have been something in the trapway that lodged, preventing a good siphon.
 

DougD

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Terry, thank you for the reply. If I understand correctly, you think I can fix this without replacing the flange? Should I be concerned about the height?
 
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FullySprinklered

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The vertical pipe is out of plumb. If you replace the flange, the new one will be crooked too. The height doesn't look that bad and I think the wax ring would just squish more on the high side. Use the mongo wax ring if you think it needs it. Snug the bolts down and caulk-in the base.
The big problem is the clogging issue. I suspect that the pipe under the slab is running flat, and things are building up in there. The 1.28 flush may not be washing the load downstream as well as an older toilet would, and it may continue to be a problem if there is no fall on the pipe.
I would clear the pipe by whatever means you think would be most effective. A professional person with a camera might be best. After that, I would make an effort to increase the water flow to help move things along down there and hopefully keep the build-up to a minimum. I dare not suggest installing an illegal 3.5 gallon flush toilet, but it might be helpful to wash your hands before flushing and keep it running for a few moments after the flush to give the process a little more momentum. Worth a shot.
 

Gary Swart

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I suspect the build grade toilets are your problem. Builder grade toilets are cheap and fit the basic requirement of "a functioning toilet", and that's why builders put them in spec houses. Many plumber, such as Terry Love, make a pretty good living replacing these. Toto toilets are frequently the replacements of choice.
 

Reach4

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Non-pro.

I would test the drain with garden hose at full blast for a few minutes to make sure that there is no water backup. If that drain cannot accept a hose plus a five-gallon bucket poured rapidly at the same time, I would get the drain cleared and/or fixed.

The job of the ring on the flange is to hold the toilet down. I am concerned that your closet bolts will be pulling against the PVC fittings, and I am concerned that will distort with time. I would think that some mounting screws should be pulling downward to take the lifting action of the closet bolts. Your idea to add some spacers to take the downward force of the wax ring or Saniseal makes sense too. I wonder how it would be to squirt some mortar mix under the ring, and then screw the flange to that after the mortar hardens.
 
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